Watch: Left Amazon US After 9 Years, Now Back in India | Here Is the Reality | NRI

2:55 So I think it it's been good. I think it's like so I lived two different lives. Like the first student life at the MBA is very different from the corporate life because you have student loan. You you're just trying to figure out what this new atmosphere is. Like the education way of education is very different. Like in the US since like especially the MBA part is more about networking and how do you build those relationships and how do you get into it. So I think that student life was very different especially going from a life where you are earning in India to moving to completely a life where now you are on student loan and trying to figure out life in a completely new city. So I think that was different. Once I think the the initial set of years I think at Amazon once you start I started working I think initially years were just focused on just paying off that student loan part.

3:47 Like just how to get that loan off your books. Like how to get a settled life. So, I think once you Once that was done, I think it's it's been a good life. I I met my wife at Cornell. So, I think couple of you couple of years after Cornell, we got married. so, I think she We got lucky that I got recruited at Amazon. She She was working at Microsoft. So, we both ended up working in Seattle. so, I think that part would good. I think eventually you find a lot of people like Indians who are just working there, Amazon, Microsoft, other companies in Seattle. And like everyone is far from family. So, you kind of create a good bond with everyone. So, I think that becomes your core group away from family. So, like it it becomes a very routine life where like 9 10 11 months you're working in Seattle, just working with like that core group of friends. 1 month every year you visit India. So, and that becomes a routine for till COVID hit.

4:48 And then obviously things were different. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah. And did you ever have this idea of moving back to India since beginning or when did this thought occur to you and how did it like, you

5:02 Know, crystallized? Yeah, so I think I was very clear that I always wanted to come back to India. I think because like for me even going to the US was not like I like I just want to go to the US. Like at that point of time it was just about I want to figure out like I've been here for a long time. I'm doing product management at a bank. I just want to figure out like what global opportunities are. So, I think that because that was my motivation, I I was always clear that I wanted to come back. My entire family's here, like I have no family in the US or anywhere else. So, and I think for me and my wife, like she was in the US longer than me. She had gone for masters right after undergrad. So, I think she was also clear that she wanted to always come back. So, I think a lot of years that we lived in Seattle, we kind of based our decision based on that point that one day we will go back.

5:58 So, like we we never bought a house. We always stayed on rent like a lot of financial decisions we made were based on that fact that we'll always go back. Got it. And why the move after 9 years and not before? Is there certain milestones or what triggered that? Even though you had the idea of moving back, but why not earlier, why not later? Yeah, so I think we we actually wanted to move much earlier. So, I think initial timeline was around 2021 of sorts. Then COVID hit and that just pushed the plan by a couple of years because everything was just stuck. Then we had our kid in 2022. That kind of delayed the plan because like initially first 2 years after kid is just chaotic.

6:48 And we were not able to think. So, I think now that the kid had turned 2 and 1/2 3. So, my wife left her job middle of last year. And then she was looking for a new job because she just wanted to change. And at that time we just had that conversation that if she's anyways looking for a new job, why not like she look for a job in India because eventually someone has to like either of us has to look for a job in India. She she started looking for job in India. I spoke to folks within my leadership and they were kind enough like they were like it's okay. Like we have a big tech team in Bangalore. So, we can move within the same role. So, I think it kind of worked out seamlessly last year. It took longer than we would expect like it took once we initiated the discussion and thought process.

7:38 It took like 6 8 months to crystallize, but I think it just kind of everything fell into place last year which made it happen. Got it. Now, thanks for that. So, maybe let's talk about a little bit on the planning. I think on the career side

7:52 You mentioned that you took the internal transfer. Was your wife able to find a job while in US when, you know, in India? Yeah, so I I took the internal job. So, I think for me it was like the idea was that at least one person has a stable way of moving back. and my wife, I think she she was able to find a job while in the US. I think it's a lot of work in terms of just networking through from like especially the Pacific time zone and India is like a lot of time difference. So, I think it's a lot of hard work like a lot of late-night calls. I think all of her interviews started like 10:00 p.m. Pacific time and went on till late because in general I think in India folks start late working in the morning. So, it took some time.

8:45 I think what she found while recruiting was I think there is more openness for US companies operating in India to look for people who have US experience than companies which are located in India. I think the interview process is also kind of slightly different. I think people who've worked in the US will find the interview process for all these like now I know we call it GCCs these companies but I think they are more structured in that way especially for product manager. Like my wife is also a product manager like me. So, it's more structured in a way how we are used to recruitment in the US. I think Indian companies usually do much longer and more number of interviews try to refine it because it's also a way to filter out thousands of candidates that are coming up. So, I think it took a bit of time. I I think she she applied to I'm sure tens of companies and

9:47 Eventually got final rounds for three or four and like got recruited into two. So, I think it took a bit of time. I would say four or five months, but I think she was able to find a job. Got it. So, that's great to hear. Was there any tactical tips for someone who was living in abroad and then trying to find a job, especially for someone who has worked in an industry for 10-15 years, right? you know, are there certain tactical or tips that worked out or anything that you can give as an advice? Yeah, I think so. There two two things basically that kind of worked out and I think she she did a good job on it. I think it was just one highlight the US specific experience. So, a lot of companies who are either dealing with US clients or have US presence or a US headquarter are looking for that bridge between the US leadership and like bunch of engineering folks who are working in India who might not be used to the US way of working. So, I think just highlighting that part on how can you

10:48 Become that bridge? You understand how US works, what the professionalism level is like. It's just becoming that bridge between technical folks and leadership who probably is in the US. I think was one important part. I think the second one was that my wife had experience in AI in Microsoft. So, I think we found last year that AI experience was something that was really sorted. like especially the hands-on experience on AI. So, like companies were looking for folks who had actually implemented some AI workflows in their day-to-day job and just understood the architecture, how LLMs work, how the entire technical part of that was. So, I think that one was good. so, I think those are the two key things that worked out. Got it.

11:42 No, thank you. And so, how did you

11:45 Guys decide about the place where you want to move to in India? I mean, I think you mentioned your family is more in Chandigarh area. Like, why Bangalore? Like, why not other area? Like, how did you finalize the place? Yeah, so both me and my wife's family is in Delhi and Chandigarh area. so, I think ideally, we would have preferred to move closer to the family. I think that was a big motivation moving back to India. So, like, how can we be closer to family? But, I think as we were going through the process, it became very clear to us like either for me through internal process or through when she was looking for job is that the area that most suited in terms of if you want to continue working. So, I think there was an argument that do we have to stop working? Do we want to do something of our own? Or do we continue to work in jobs? And I think if we we decided to continue working in jobs, I think then Bangalore became the logical place.

12:41 Like, all the tech companies were here. Both of us in Amazon, Microsoft have worked in tech. So, I think it kind of made most logical sense for us to move to Bangalore. And then, once we are here, I think we decided we'll figure it out how it is. But, I think just to make our process easier, I think Bangalore was the only suitable place. Got it. Understood. let's talk about I think the planning of move back to India, right? I think on a financial, logistics, anything that you can share in this 6 to 8 months, how did you plan and the

13:15 Move? Yeah, so I think planning-wise, we I we just started looking at people who had moved previously. So, I think we found bunch of folks, asked people to connect us with folks who had recently moved from the US to Bangalore. I think there were few decisions that we had to make. One was, do we ship stuff from the US to India, or do we just leave everything and buy everything new? I think other was like, where do we live in Bangalore? I think neither of us had ever been to Bangalore or maybe one or two days in our previous like as a vacation, but had no idea what different localities were. We're very used to how US operate like having lived there like especially in Seattle, we know how rental markets work, how moving work, etc. But, we had no idea how that was. So, I think talking to people is the biggest thing.

14:09 I think fortunately what we found was in last two or three years, bunch of folks have moved from US to India and like folks like specially Reddit communities and like just finding people have been like super helpful for us. So, I think one was just talking to people. Second thing I think what we did was I came to Bangalore. I I had a office trip. I was meeting engineers in Bangalore as part of my office trip. So, I kind of used that to figure out what the housing situation is, what the traffic situation is. So, I we heard a lot about Bangalore traffic, but unless I feel I thought unless you've experienced it it's it's hard to figure out like where to stay. So, I think once my wife Anusha like her job was finalized, I think then I knew where my office was going to be. So, I stayed 10 days in Bangalore just to figure out what different apartment buildings are there, what the commute is like, etc.

15:07 Etc. So, I think that was the other big decision that was there. So, I think from a logistics standpoint, those are the two key things. Yeah, I think from a finance standpoint, I think we we did speak with people who were already here on how much should we continue to keep invested in the US because both of our a lot of part is in RSUs which are either existing companies or invested in the market. So, I think for us one of the important consideration was how much money do we move back, how much do we need right now, and how much do we continue to keep in the US. like anything that you can share about your 401(k)s or some other assets, like how did you think through about those?

15:54 Yeah, so I think we decided we'll leave a bunch of that in the US. I think what the alignment we had was that for now we'll use the we'll get remit the funds that we absolutely need for next 1 year. So, like for the next 1 year considering like whatever we come as a income from jobs, but apart from that whatever expenses we need, we decided to remit that amount to India so that there is a comfortable buffer that we have. and the rest of the amount we decided we'll continue to leave in the US. Especially whatever is invested with the dollar-rupee exchange rate already on that path. So, I think the big consideration was that let's leave leave it there. We decided not to buy a house immediately coming back to Bangalore, so let's just continue to live on rent. And eventually when we are ready to make a big financial outlay either buying a house or something else, then we'll we'll remit the rest of the funds. Got it.

16:53 Understood. I think on the internal transfer, is there anything specific that you want to bring up like maybe from an you know,

17:01 The discussions or something to consider because people might be in a similar boat who might be taking an internal transfer. any input from your side on that? Yeah, I think so. On the internal transfer, I think the biggest thing that surprised me was the time it took even after the alignment we had internally. So I think it's it's not a very straightforward process. So I think because usually the India entities are set up different from the US entities and foreign entities. So like the companies have to figure out a lot about tax situation, manager reporting situation, etc. So I think it took a long period of time to do that. I think it's also important to just align on what your role will be and like what what is the expectation because I think you can continue the a lot of people just find new roles which I think is the most cleanest way to do. I I continue to operate in the

18:02 Same role because I I am I like the work that I'm doing. So I continue to do that work, but I think it's important to just align on what the expectation are. Get buying from everyone so that it doesn't come as a surprise to anyone what it is. So I think eventually getting your leadership chain, your manager early notice what you're thinking through like what your plans are. I think that transparency becomes super important especially as you're moving like in our like my case moving from a headquarter location to a different location. Okay, got it. And anything on the paperwork side, RSUs or anything or it's just like a straightforward it just varies from company to company or anything that they have to Yeah, I think I would imagine it varies from company to company. I think so. At least in Amazon the RSUs are given like couple of years in advance. So you get to keep your RSUs. I think comp is something that would vary a lot from company to company how it is managed, but I think that's a conversation that

19:02 Everyone should have between you and your manager because that's a like compensation is a big variable which I would say a lot of people continue to live in the US. Once you move from US to India, I think that has the biggest impact. So, being transparent around being cognizant about and not be surprised when you see once you see the revised compensation, I think that is an important factor. Got it. And I just to confirm on the immigration status, like you were on H-1B or on green card, like you and your wife, yeah? Yeah, so both of us were on H-1B. I think that priority dates were something like 2017, 2018, in that timeframe. So, I don't think there was a path, maybe there was in next 10 years to get through, but I don't see how it was a realistic path to get to a green card.

19:55 I always joke that our kid, us on H-1B, yeah. And Okay. Cool. So, how is life in India?

20:10 I think life is good. I think from like it's a I think we like it's been 3 months almost since we moved. So, I think the good part is around family. So, we both have been able to visit family now two or three times in 3 months. Family has been able to visit us. I think once we when we were in the US, it was just one fixed month where family could visit us. There was no flexibility around it, like same month, like we could visit, etc. Now, I think any trip we are able to make to Delhi NCR, we are able to do that. So, I think that part is good. We also have good support system here. So, I think we have good house help who can help with like fresh food, help in the house. So, I think that part is good. I think one of the biggest things when I was in Bangalore that I realized was like everyone is moving from bubble to bubble.

21:04 So, all the tech parks are in one type of bubble. All these gated societies are bubble and then you just have to minimize the chaos in between moving from bubble to bubble. So the the good part is that we found a apartment in a good gated society. The people are super welcoming in the gated society. There are a bunch of folks. There are like at least 40-50 kids with whom our son can play. So I think that part is super good. There are a bunch of people who are also have returned from the US. So good to connect with them. I think obviously the the most difficult part in Bangalore is the traffic part which which especially I think the like traffic in it's not like Seattle does not have peak traffic and does not take time. I think it's just that it's peak traffic all the time in Bangalore.

21:56 So there's no time where you can leave and you can just expect non off-peak factor. So and comes down to I think how much time that is wasted in commute. But I think that and then I think for both of us who are now working for US-based companies there are a lot of evening calls that we have to cater to. When I was in like in Seattle like most of my calls would start at like 7:00 a.m. and like the start of the day was super early. I think that is a big change that we've had since we moved here. Like things start late. Like people come into Goes on till 11:00 12:00 at night. So I think in general the family time that three of us spend with each other has gone down somewhat but it might also be a factor of we are still trying to figure out our schedules. Yeah. That's like I think you mentioned traffic. Like have you considered the place where you want to stay based on like your employment or kids school? Like how did

22:57 You navigated that? Yeah. So I think that was a big factor in like finding a rented apartment. So I we wanted to find where both me and my wife's commute is like we can live somewhere in the middle. So I think that was a big factor. So technically on paper our apartment is somewhere in the middle for both me and my wife's office. It usually takes like obviously variable time for both of us. Like I think if we would have stayed closer to one either of our office, the other person's commute would have been like 1 and 1/2 hours almost. So I think we we did that. I think it was less about school, I would say, because I think from the research I found there are bunch of schools. Like all these chains in Bangalore, KL WeVero, have bunch of outlets, multiple places in Bangalore.

23:51 So I think any place I was looking at home there was obviously a KL WeVero or any other school nearby. Our kid also is like he's not eligible for proper school yet. So it was finding a mixture of like pre-nursery and daycares. Got it. This is also an another important one for a lot of people to consider is the work culture, right? I think there is a concern from that. Like and you being worked in India for some time before going to abroad and working there for quite some time. And now working back, anything that you can see as a difference like how it was before and now as well as the overall

24:31 Work culture. Yeah, so I think there there is a considerable difference. Like especially when I moved from India to the US. Like I don't know how much part of that was just working in a bank in India versus moving to a tech company. But like bank everything was very formal. I think it's also there people take a lot of breaks in in between in India. Like there is obviously tea break and then everyone goes as a group and for lunch and then there is everyone walks around. So, I think that piece of culture I found very different in the US. Like people were eating lunch at their desks, not blocking more than half an hour for lunch. Like I hardly saw anyone taking break. Like so, the level of professionalism was slightly different. people also usually start very early. people are in office at 6:30 a.m., 7:00 a.m. and like once

25:32 They're out at 4:00 p.m. they're done for the day. Like so, I hardly found anyone in the US like when they close their laptop like unless obviously you are on phone, but once you're done at 4:00 p.m. you're done for the day. In India it was like very different. You would come around 9:00 10:00, but you are okay to stay till 8:00 p.m. 9:00 p.m. so, I think it depends like even coming back I found even though I I still work for US company, the culture is slightly different. Like you have these long lunch breaks, you have tea breaks, etc. Like people go on that. There is and then obviously everyone goes home and still is working and continuously on call. So, I think that's that's a big change especially working in a Indian culture versus a US culture.

26:21 Okay, got it. Is there anything that you miss from US or anything that you didn't expect or surprises in India? In a good or bad way? No, I think so. We had like the biggest thing we miss is like our set of friends. so, we like I think what happens is because everyone is away from their family. so, everyone becomes like very close to each other. Like that becomes a family. You're away from your core family in India. So, I think that that's probably the biggest thing we miss, which is the core group of friends who would just hang out every week like especially around Diwali Diwali time. I like I would imagine people in the US have more Diwali parties than people in India. Just a function of you are away from your family, so you over overcompensate.

27:13 But I think that's one I think the other part is just like Seattle specifically is there's a lot of outdoor stuff to do. So, it's almost like a hill station. We I would call like any place you drive, you see mountains like there's snow nearby. You can go skiing, you can do other hikes, etc. So, I think that's lakes and clean air. Like we never had to worry about all of that when we were in the US, but it was like we we were conscious of that fact when we moved back. So, I I don't think that part in India has surprised I think the good surprise in India is just prevalence of Blinkit and Zepto, etc., which has been super helpful. I think especially as people who have just moved to just get everything in like 5 minutes at home and not doing that weekly grocery store trip and like explicitly going out. So, I think that has been a good surprise for us

28:14 Moving back. is there any topic that we haven't touched that you want to bring up?

28:22 No, I think in general like the biggest thing I see online having been part of all these community is that people get surprised by the state of India and by the infrastructure and like everything around there. And I think that's the biggest thing I always tell people like US is like I would imagine it's around like 80,000 90,000 USD per capita income. Like we are India is at like 3,000 3 and 1/2 thousand per capita income. And it comes with own set of problems like our urban infrastructure is obviously not that good. So, anyone who wants to move, I would just suggest like we take a conscious decision. Like there there will be problems. Some of the problems you can throw money at it. Like which is like staying in these bubbles and like not worrying about what the infrastructure is. But there will still be problems that you can't throw money at it. Like pollution, you have to live

29:23 With that level of pollution. Like if you are on road going for work, you have to deal with all of that. Like the civic sense on roads everyone just obviously drives great in the US. Like but that is not going to happen on roads where you have 20 different vehicle types trying to work on like same road. So, I think my my advice to everyone is that just be conscious of all these facts. Try living it here for some time. If it doesn't work out, then just figure out like what alternative is that. But I think the biggest disappointment you would have is if you come with a very rosy picture in your mind on when you left India 10 years back and then you like the the grass is always greener on the other other side. So, when you're living in the US, you see all these fancy posts online where India is like doing this.

30:13 Like we have the best system here. But be conscious of what the reality is. So, I think that's that's the only thing I would suggest everyone. Yeah. No, very much true. I think it's making a informed decision and understanding the reality. Yeah. Yeah. So, thanks a lot Swapnil for taking the time and sharing your story. I think it's going to be helpful for others who are considering about moving to India. Yeah, happy to help. Great. Thank you.