Watch: Back to India after 18 years abroad | NRI Dilemma: Balancing Kids Wellbeing, Career and Identity

3:44 Of limited so my husband was trying for a PhD in Australia so he got the iprs scholarship to go to Australia and we were almost at that point of time you know even purchasing house we were almost settling down in Delhi and suddenly I get this phone call and I had gotten into a government job so it was a direct icsr jrf junior research fellow appointment in cwds so Center for Women's development studies now it's grown into quite a big almost like a university Network by itself and I had to leave that job and go to Australia because I couldn't manage with my single salary in in Delhi and after going to Australia it was a completely there's a first you know feeling I had my three-year-old son with me two and a half years old and that whole experience of him struggling like he was a Paka you know Punjabi speaking he wouldn't

4:47 Say he would say he would correct my Hindi my Hindi used to correcta Hindi and going there and forcefully trying to learn this English language we were forcing him okay now don't speak Hindi anymore now Starts Now English is your language so now we then moved I mean then I got a scholarship after that so it was a very lonely period for me one or two years because my husband was doing his PhD what was I doing my son used to go out to school and the houses were almost you know 30 they were so away from each other even to see even if somebody's dead in your neighbor's house you will not know because it's quite far away and it was in Brisbane so that lonely era in Australia and then eventually I got my PhD I got the same scholarship I fin I got a scholarship for you know iprs same thing then he finished his PhD and he shifted he

5:48 Wanted to shift to Germany so in the middle of my PhD I'm shifting to Germany with all these two children my second son was already born and we're shifting to another new country where it becomes night at 4:45 p.m. and you don't know what to do with your life it's it's like suddenly going to the North Pole from a bright area and another completely different cultural shock in my life but I tried to make like I was finishing my PhD so it was time CH the time Gap was so much so I used to still get in contact with my supervisors and somehow I ended up finishing my PhD there was a big struggle because the daycare centers were not very good in Germany as they were very good in Australia but they were not good in Germany and then I finished my PhD did my you know German class and it was it was in a country where you don't know one single word and

6:49 You're made to look like a fool because you don't know the language it's not that because you don't can't read the instruction so you are going up and down the lift and you don't know what is in an out what is exit so people make fun of you thinking you're some you know illiterate or something like that look at this you know uncultured foolish but actually the fact is you don't know what that you can read it but you don't know what it means basically so those kind of experiences and my children struggled quite a bit in Germany I would say it was quite a struggling time for both of them and then at some point of time I realized that my I had hit a glass ceiling so here also I tried to make the best of what I had so I already had a PhD of from School of Public Health from Australia and I tried to get my own funding so I I got at least two fundings from the German Research Foundation DFG which was quite competitive so you

7:51 Have to sit at home write these project proposal submit them meet professors you know network with them alliance with them and then you submit the proposals and then you get the funding so I got a two very good funding so one was on sarasi in India second was on you know the whole concept of vam so both Indo German comparison I did a comparative study and eventually I realized that the day your funding finishes they don't want to give you a penny from their funding okay they don't want to support you your position at all so as long as you are position is supported by some external funding they happen the day your funding is over they say Okay pack your B and then you're down to you know looking for odd jobs and things like that and at that point of time I did do some kind of you know odd jobs in Australia I was much younger and then

8:54 And I said no I mean I'm am worth more than that I'm not so desperate that I have to stay in a country where you know people were offering me why don't you do a course on old age home care or why don't you do a course on Nursery you know school teacher which most of the women were doing there very quite happily and I said should I go down that same path or should I just go down to back to my own country where I might get a lot more options so I you know tried to convince my husband I said come let's go back you are hit a glass I have hit a glass ceiling so we were not getting any Professor position there it's something called habilitation in Germany you have to do your second PhD to actually become a professor and your PhD has to be from Germany okay they had these rules and it was almost impossible I had a talk with my supervisor he said why would I give you when I have X Y and Z and he's not a German mind you he was

9:55 From I'm not taking names he was from USA but he said why would I give you when I have these three in my box you know so that's when it I realized that I'm not going to get that position that I deserve and I realized that younger people younger colleagues of mine who were maybe 20 years younger than me they were doing the habilitation and becoming professors but just because I'm you know immigrant in that place I was not getting my word so that's when I came back to IND India so that's my journey overall how I came back to India in 200 year 2020 yes years no thanks for the detailed so if we can peel off little things here so I'm assuming your husband was also into academics so he also did the PHD he also so just curious in terms of it just that there is an opportunity for him to join an

10:56 University in Germany versus in Australia or is it a very you know decisive decision to move to Germany or it just where the opportunity happened to be and so we just you guys moved there just curious on that I really

11:09 Don't know what happened there because I was because Germany was a very out of the box thing it was not in our radar at all okay and in fact I was getting part-time jobs while doing my PhD H and he had finished his PhD and he was struggling to get a job so so I don't know what was going on in his mind that he said okay in 10 days we are moving out to Germany got it okay it it kind of just uprooted what I was like kind of just starting to you know build roots and the children as well you know they were well settled my son was already in class one he had forgotten Hindi he was speaking Australian English and he was in class one and then suddenly we come j so at that point of time we were also getting jobs in India but he convinced me by saying that we'll get some International

12:10 Experience and then come back to India but that didn't happen so initially he got a one and a half year contract you know but then he wanted that International experience got it one and a half became two and then it became three and a half then he got another project so this just went went on but he was not getting much options in Australia because Australia we were unable to get citizenship yeah in Australia the the points is very much based on your you know your age age carries a huge percentage of coins to get citizenship and we were quite I mean we were in our 30s we were 35 I was 35 he was 37 so that age gr you get very less points so maybe he wanted you know the passport was the main factor got yeah that's how we move to jman so I

13:10 Know I think you mentioned it's for the career opportunities the glass ceiling what there any apprehensions moving to India especially after spending 18 years abroad you know so just curious I know the career options is one aspect but there could also be like you know whether you could fit well or like the other other aspects and anything that you have considered how did you weigh your decision and how you convince your husband to make the move back to

13:38 India so basically as I told you I moved back alone because I he had his own he his apprehensions were probably a lot more than mine I was full of apprehensions but I knew it's not working there okay so I I just took that PL because I know it's India and I had this very good friend you know nid vad and she was for some time with me in Germany so she had been in contact with me all the time she was motivating me on the phone and I just took the plunge I came to India and by the time I was already applying everywhere so I was applying to countries in Europe and how I did I took that plunges in Germany you have the center for international migration and development it's called The Sim program so people

14:41 Academics and workers especially people who have worked and studied in Germany this program helps you to make a return back to your home country oh okay so this program was really helpful for me so they had these missions where you can come back to India and do smaller missions so I got involved with them and I was in India on a mission with them and their entire program is towards you know the migrant Indians and also other countries they have the same s program in other countries they help you to find jobs but fortunately before they could help me I found my job so I had applied to you know jadur University piter University and to University of H so I think you kind of touched a little bit about this so if you can expand a little bit more I mean especially the kids adjustment you know with both your kids right you know they are at a different stage you know

15:42 When they were born so if we can talk a little bit about you know their challenges or how they were able to successfully navigate you know some of these you know things that come up while moving from one country to the other country I think that would be helpful this is some common you know question or something that back off in the mind of a lot of parents right especially somebody moving to a different country how the kids can cope up with the new language how well they

16:08 Can adjust or any tips and tricks from your perspective that you can share with with our audience yeah so my Elder son the first sashan the first challenge that he faced was I he was this spaka Hindi speaking person and then we were like forced to make him speak English now okay you forget that language this is the most priority language for you and he did face quite a bit of racism in his you know Nursery School like they used to keep there was another Indian Child they would put them separate and say that know these two cribbing crying Asian kids whereas all the Australian kids would take part in you know program RS and things like that and these were red flags that we didn't you know we just overlooked at that point of time and but his school was really good he

17:09 Went to IR ironide School in Brisbane it was really his teachers were really nice so we had this mix experience in Australia then he had become really good in English Okay so he had picked up good English and he was well settled in the school my younger son was born so we had a very good daycare there and everything was going on fine suddenly we moved off to Germany at one point of time I remember we were at at little we were at a shopping little is a a common place where we buy all our groceries in Germany he started sobbing I can't cope up with Germany he said that I'm getting because in German children are very you know ruggish they like pull and push and they where nobody will bother the teachers will not say oh don't do that and things like that so he was also getting some kind of you know physical physically you

18:11 Know some kind of problems in the school and he was sobbing he said I I want to go back to Australia because why are we here so I had no answer to that so the only way I told him is that okay you learn the language see whatever you want is right here here but it's all in German so you learn the language so second time the poor child had to learn a completely alien language he had never learned in his lifetime and by the time my younger son was growing up here he was learning he was listening to four different languages so Tamil Tamil Hindi English and German he didn't talk for one and a half years then eventually he started talking and eventually when he started going to class five six he faced a different kind of racism so he was at one point of time the teachers had put you know nothing it was nowhere near cyber crime they were having like these are fourth fifth class

19:15 Students who were having a banter in the WhatsApp okay so suddenly we get a letter from the school that okay your child has been booked for this and we said what this is is seven years old how can he be booked for something as serious as that and we looked at all the material it was nothing like thumbs up head you you know laughing and you know emojis and we were called to the school and we realized that only three students who were actually immigrant students who were cornered and why because there was one boy whose father was very influential he was actually a principal in another school who was teased by these boys they were teased by other boys as well but the main targets were these immigrant kids and I went to the school along with with you know with my husband and they wanted our signature basically they

20:17 Were they wanted to suspend him from school for a week and I lost my temper I said do you even have children I mean the this is not even cyber crime just look at this is is it normal children having a good time with each other and U how can you call it a cyber crime so they were very insistent and my husband was you know by the time he had become so like 18 years abroad and all and especially in Germany you know people start becoming this I have to follow the rules that's it it's like that dog also that you CR cross the road unless you see that green signal people feel Pride about it but that's how human beings we become we become those herds where we are not using our own brains at all you know I I had a similar experience with Australia where some of my diaspora friends used to tell me no no you're not

21:17 Supposed to criticize why because it's like you know this country has given us you know shelter shelter we are not you know we not refugees we have a good country out there we can go back anytime so but there's always this fear so similarly there was this very you know my husband had already got tuned into this you know very straight jacketed he went and signed that letter wow of suspension and he were suspended for a year failed one year for no you know no fault of his and that's when I realized okay my career on one hand these kids are suffering okay and then my husband started telling okay you're not finding a job why don't you do odd jobs again and I said that's that's not so my

22:17 Elder son was a big support for me in that way he he said you just have to try everywhere and you have to try India yeah yeah so that's when I took that huge plunge and coming back to India my younger son yeah he did not know either Hindi or Telugu or any other Indian languages so it was a struggle for him as well but I got him admitted in Meridian School which had a second language was French and now he too has settled quite well fortunately we came when he was in ninth standard now he just completed 12 so he had his own story so born in born in Australia brought up in Germany and then point so I think it's a good one I mean I think so since you brought up about your younger one so this is also another very common question among the parents

23:17 Especially someone moving at that age you know especially when they are in like ninth grade or 10th grade it's just going to be much much more tough so I know you mentioned I think he's already in the 12th grade right so if it is okay I'm assuming was he in an IB curriculum when he moved to was that in a CB like yeah if you can share like what curriculum and also like what you were thinking about maybe after the 12th grade what kind of universities he's planning to apply like how how he is approaching in terms of the graduation program yeah okay so he when he came I

23:51 Mean both my children were in German school so government School we we we were academicians so we could not have we were you only un you know employed are taking IB schools in Germany extremely expensive it's th000 per monthly it's not affordable by us but both my children were in German medium government schools and that's how my Elder son got the German passport because once you finish 12th class you get a passport so when he came here English itself was a second language for him the Fe was people used to say you're going back to especially the Indian diaspora the German people were quite understandable they were said okay you're going back to your country so they used to actually ask me why don't you go back to your country how can you stay for so long because they they they don't leave their country as much yeah so when we came here the Indians were telling oh he's going to fail in mathematics he's going to fail in

24:54 English all that and eventually it took a lot of time I must say the Indian teachers were so good they you know were very accommodative and knowing that he had made this complete cultural change and they helped him quite a bit and friends helped him a lot in you know in studies and everything so until 12 now he's applying so know he's finished his 12th from Meridian School itself I wanted to change after 10th he said no I have good friends here I don't want to change so now he's trying for nmims so he he he has an Indian passport so I thought he was born in Australia right he's born in Australia but you don't get a passport automatically just by birth it's not like the US got it you had an Indian passport I had an Indian passport so eventually he's just like any other

25:54 Indian so he's applying to NM IMS so many colleges for BBA so I'm assuming he actually went through like you know maybe some of these competitive exams J or whatever like you know so that's the path he took and so he comfortably get settled in the last four months I mean like you know four years right I think even though Hindi might not be the you know his main language but using the French language as second language he was able to navigate through you know the education system and you know be able to comfortably like participate in this competitive examinations to get admissions in these colleges okay yes of course you asked me about the challenges when I came back to India the and what I what apprehensions I had I had a lot of

26:46 Apprehensions and because I had not been I had not lived in India for 18 years I was coming as a tourist all very exotic you know go back buy do some sh shopping meet friends that's it and then go back to that wherever you came from but coming back to India was not that all not that easy because even even when it came to my career also when it came to personal things but I I will say after all the challenges I managed because this is a country I know better than any other country I have lived my first 23 years in this country so I know how to maneuver I know what to do when I get into a trouble it's not a situation where like for example we have been in court in Germany because a neighbor the

27:47 Downstairs neighbor they filed a case on us that we are walking too much in the house it was a wooden houses yeah too noisy these Indians they're making noise with their vessels you know we have a lot of Steel vessels of course so we wash vessels all that noise was affecting the lady downstairs so she filed a case on us she actually used to come and bang our door and all that so we went to the court and we didn't know what the judge was saying we need we needed a interpreter for yeah so here again I had to go to court you know for for another reason for my career reason because I was I was made the head of the department and my colleague went to cour because she argued that she was more experienced but I didn't have to you know need an interpreter so I could fight my own case

28:48 And it's my motherland it's my country so I know what to do I know how to Manu it's not that there were not no challenges but I feel academically also one one thing that also was both a pull and push factor was that I work on women's issues so I work on women's empowerment I worked since 1998 on this topic and I wrote a book when I was in in Germany on transnational sasy and so the fact that women you know are making strides in India so at some point of time the employment rate was increasing in India for the last 10 years the percentage of women who are holding bank accounts asset ownership was increasing all that was happening I know

29:48 What was happening but I could not contribute to it as much as I was when I was in Germany so people people academics living abroad Indian academics living abroad they might be thinking okay I take this Indian projects I come to India do a study go back but you cannot I realized that you cannot contribute to the society as much as when you actually come back here because now I have done two projects one on bti Bacha one on the handloom sector both on women's empowerment and the kind of contribution I've been able to make after I come after I come back here it's a huge difference you cannot do that sitting you know a long distance so whether it is teaching whether it's research whether it's policy initiatives all kinds of you know inputs you can do you can give your maximum when when you are right

30:48 Here yeah so now you're in the society you you know what is going on and then you can give your yeah makes sense definitely I mean I think the proximity plays a big role especially like in how you can influence and how you can make a bigger impact from your perspective that you want to share to people who are considering about moving back to India or you know thinking about it or who hasn't made a decision any advice that you can share from your

31:16 Perspective so one thing I would say is apply start applying before if you were thinking of coming back you should start applying at at least a year before or six months before so you know what field so I was very clear that I want this associate professor Jo so I was applying universities based on so first is first thing first is you start applying and come down when you get one thing that is you know near to what you want to do and then keep applying if it all you you know if you get something something like best fit you may not get immediately it might take some time but you can always you know get something after you come to India Finance is one thing that you should keep in mind

32:16 Like I had this property a joint property so we did you know sell that property eventually and that money got investment invested otherwise it's a bit bit struggle as to what so that's one one factor that you need to look into otherwise I think India has really it's so it's like a smooth Landing because the kind of UPI payment the kind of you know digitization that has taken place in India since I left 18 years ago I remember applying for a passport was so difficult for such a cumbersome process you know Adar card vo's ID banking UPI payments right from vegetable vendors to wherever you might go to shopping malls I don't think this kind of UPI payment is there anywhere in the

33:17 World once you have like these two things set your application processes and your finances to some extent then everything else just kind of you know you can fit in place because eventually it's more difficult living abroad than living here because you have to clean your house yourself you have to do everything by yourself here it's easier to find help it's it's your country you can speak your language so many things that you know have changed in the last two decades in India there's it's it's quite smooth sailing I would say if you have your job and finances you know slightly in control you might still face some kind of hiccups but it's not like major hiccups something that you can you know manage yeah sure I mean that's true I mean I think the changes the you know

34:18 Some of these UPI payments as you said you know how things have evolved in the last couple of decades yeah so thank you very much for sharing your thoughts for sharing your journey with us especially like you know spending 18 years in multiple countries yeah great yeah thank you very much for sharing your journey with us really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your story with us thank you thank you thank you thanks thank you all for joining us on this insightful journey of Dy return if you enjoyed this episode and want to explore more stories and expert advice make sure to subscribe and hit the notification Bell don't forget to leave a comment below with your thoughts and experiences by the way check out the links in the description below for our Facebook group and social media for updates and engaging discussions as well as connecting with fellow the wrers thank you once again and until next time

35:20 May your D written journey be filled with joy growth and endless possibilities