Watch: IT Family's Return to India After 10 Years in US

3:31 Think you worked for few years in India after graduation and it's the opportunity and then you know kind of enhancing the skills. So how was life in US after the you know when you went to US for your graduation and then like you know working there and so on. Sure. So when you're a student right I think many of them can relate to this but you're very frugal right you live in a small house share it with a lot of friends make some good friendships frankly and you have a lot to study you're really not worried about the luxuries of life and everything but things take a turn when you actually get a job you get some salary and everything right so you look for a better house better standard of living u and that's that's exactly same that happened to me Lucky for me, I had a lot of friends from my university days and my work that I had done in Bangalore, right? So, a lot of them moved at the same time to kind of do their postgraduation too. So, I had like a lot of friends around which kind of made things easier for me,

4:32 Right? you would always have somebody to lean on. you would have people like if you get bored or something, right, there would be people within driving distance that you could go visit. but life in general on a day-to-day basis was great, right? had a good job. which was paying decently well but it was challenging at the same time right got to learn a lot of new things it gave the opportunity to kind of work directly with a lot of clients in the US which was a great learning even after coming back to India right I think that is something that I treasured so I always felt like life in the US is something that you really don't have to worry about for the basic necessities like for example a lot of People who come back to India they tell me like oh I'm worried if there are if there's going to be water in bank like especially in Bangalore right a lot of people are worried if there is water in the tank or not if the electricity is going to go off so things like this you never have to worry about in the US right so the basic necessities are

5:34 Always taken care of it's just the luxuries that you have to pay for so all in all I think life in US was like

5:41 Easy and there's like a set path that your life follows in US right so as long as just stick to the path that have no issues. Got it. Yeah, for sure. So, when did this thought about moving to India occurred and what triggered it and why? the thought to moving to India, it was always there in my head, right? Like even before I kind of set foot in the US, I always was of the mindset that hey, you know what? I want to go visit the country u like explore the country see what it has to offer but I ultimately want to come back to India. That was the mindset with which I did go to the US. not to say that I have not been tempted to stay back. but that is part of the reason why I did not choose to apply for any green card or like do some additional work or something just to stay in the US. Right?

6:35 So I decided like okay I'm going to stay in the US as long as the system allows me to but ultimately I'll kind of move back to India because that is where I want to be right again I keep telling about this theory to my friends there is always like a balance where there is US on one side and there is India on one side so if you're weighing the pros of being in US versus being in India right even though you're mentally versus in terms of US, right? So that is when making that move will be so very easy for you to India because I see a lot of people who have moved back but they kind of repent that decision like if they are not ready to kind of make the move I would not suggest them to make the move. In fact we undertook this exercise right we had a bold and we wrote down like okay what is the advantage of us staying in US right right now despite having the mindset that I want to move back to India we did this we did this exercise of writing it

7:36 Down like okay what are the advantages that we have in India versus what are the advantages we have in the US and ultimately when that got better like the India pros got better we made them got it understood so it's interesting so you you were very intentional about moving to India and so you didn't want to get into that trap of like applying for green card or anything. So you whatever the work visa permits you wanted to continue and then move back so that way you are not like got into the tempted into living in India living in US for for a long time. No, I have seen this Avin with a lot of people, a lot of my friends, right? They say, "Hey, you know what? I'll just apply for the green card and that way I'll always have the green card. I can come back to the US whenever I want." And once they get the green card, they'll be like, "Oh, let my date get current and then I'll move." Then they'll be like, "Okay, let me get the citizenship and then move." And by the time their kids are all older and they don't want to move, so it it kind of gets like a vicious cycle. So just to break away from it, I

8:37 Kind of did not apply for it. Understood. And where did this

8:41 10-year time frame come in? Is it just because the work visa thing or is it just like you know that's when you decided this is the time to move or family situation? Just maybe if we can talk about why the move after 10 years not 5 years before or later. so yeah if you can walk us through the timing of the Sure. So I kind of worked for two years right. Then you had CPD that stretched for about one one and a half year and after that six years of work visa right u six six and a half taking the holidays and everything into account that's where the approximate 10 year comes from in fact we were supposed to move at when we were around 9 years into the this thing but then we found out that we were pregnant so we were like we might as well have the baby here and then move back to India because we always felt like the baby has to grow up in India with his or her grandparents and everything, right? So that was like a very key factor that tilted this scale in terms of India for us. so

9:44 Basically visa restrictions in addition to the kid those were the things that really gave me that 10 year time frame. Got it. Understood. So you also was mentioning about like you know just able to make the move just before the lockdown, right? Maybe you can talk through a little bit about that just to understand some of the expedition that you have to do to get in just before the travel ban happened during the covid time. Anything that you can share? Yeah. again here I probably have to thank a lot of friends that I moved from Seattle like that was the last place that I was in the US. I probably have to thank a lot of my friends that I have in Seattle for this because we were planning to move in May 2020. that was the date we had in mind. we had our rental contract up until May. everything was set in place, right? but then CO hit us in January. Like we were prepared, we were prepared to move in May versus not before, right? So COVID hit in January and then we started

10:46 To follow the news and everything. so we decided okay if we're going to make a move, it's going to be now or given how the pandemic is progressing, right? we might not be able to move for the next two years, right? so what we did was we kind of thought about pushing it out for another two years, but then we didn't know what sort of visa issues or something would come into picture, right? so we taking all the current situations at that point in time into consideration, we said okay, let's move now versus later, right? And at that point in time, we actually ran into a lot of problems, right? While we were ready to kind of give away all our stuff and everything in May, we had to do it two months prior, right? And having a small kid who was like 6 months old really didn't make things easier, right?

11:36 We the good thing was like we had friends who could kind of help us. like we donated a lot of our stuff like if people are planning to move, this is something that they should look at, right? there are a lot of hospitals, there are a lot of organizations that are doing social work that would take your old furniture that they would take your old TVs, even kitchen utensils and everything, right? So a lot of it just got donated. and then even after all of that, there was some stuff that was left in our house, right? And we were really really close to the day we were supposed to fly because that was like the last flight that actually came into Bangalore. So what we did was we I literally handed my keys to my friends and said like you can either take whatever is left in the house for your own use or just thrash everything or donate everything and then just give the keys to the landlord and they help helped us out there. So u while it was planned some last minute hurdles kind of threw us off our this thing but overall like the move

12:38 Itself was okay. Another hurdle probably that I mentioned we hit was like during the travel ban right only Indian citizens were allowed to come into the country. No. And my son since he was born in the US he was a US citizen. So we had to go to trans San Francisco at the peak of the pandemic get special permission for him to travel to India and then we had to make the move. So a few hurdles but in the end it all worked out well. Definitely. No thanks for sharing that. So maybe just

13:09 Switching the gates a little bit on a planning side. since you have a clear path that you want to move back to India, anything that you can talk about from a financial side like you know financial investments in US versus India and financial planning I think that you can share that would be very helpful. Sure. So again since I had that idea that I want to move back I had started exploring these things long back. So I had started consolidating all my bank accounts like I had accounts with like multiple banks. So I kind of closed most of them and I kind of held on to like just my Chase account so that in case I had to file taxes or I needed money in the future to pay off credit card bills or something that might like I I still had like medical bills and everything. So in case I had to pay that I I always like decided that I would leave that working and it is in fact still working. right the I also consolidated all my 401k accounts into one account and I opened it with Vanguard which was a

14:10 Good choice because it's free of cost like they don't charge any maintenance fees or anything same with my stocks consolidated all of them and put it into one account and made sure that it was with a lowc cost provider so that I'm I'm I don't actively trade so I didn't want some provider who would like support international trading and everything. So kind of moved it to somebody who just provides the services no fills attached sort of a thing. So the other thing that I also did was since I knew that I would need some money to sustain myself even though I took a intercomp transfer I knew like the first few months would probably be like a little tough. So made sure that I transferred some amount of money to India so that I could sustain myself for like at least a 6-month period, right?

14:59 Doing that while you are there is a lot easier than coming back here and kind of trying to do that. And in the end the biggest decision that I probably had to make was do I transfer all of the money that I have kept in the US back to India or do I leave it there? Right? And I probably took the first choice of keeping all the money in US partly because it's a emerging market like it's it's growing at a faster pace than India and second the dollar to rupee conversion itself right so when I moved I think dollar was about 72 rupees per dollar and now it's almost like 8486 if I'm not wrong so even that appreciation kind of gives you back money right So that is the reason I kind of left money there and let it just grow on itself rather than bringing money back to India. Got it. Except for what's essential. Yeah, makes sense. And in terms of the investment, so you went

15:59 With the 401k investments, 401k you know funding and all that stuff contribution even you have plans to be move moving back to India. Yeah. So that was more or less plan for the retirement and my employer actually had 401k matching. So like if you don't if you whatever you pay to the 401k fund right they would match it. So that was more or less like free money right and free tax taxfree money. So why would you let it go like even paying the 10% penalty and getting it back if you want it right now would still put me at a profit rather than not choosing it. So it was like a it was like an easy decision frankly to put money in 401k.

16:44 Yeah. So how was the life in India for the last five years since the moment? So since we were mentally prepared and we actually like not me but my wife did make a couple of trips to India prior to the move right trying to kind of figure out where we're going to leave like we had our parents and everyone but we still wanted to be sure about being ready when we came here right especially with a kid and everything so that kind of helped like having the mindset telling that okay we're going to be returning here having a house to just move into that was another great help when we kind of moved in and as I said we were moving during co time right so we had to stay in quarantine and everything so having a house really really helped but after the move it was like really easy right this is where I have been born and bought up for like almost 25 years and then you're just coming back to the place after a 10 year gaps right so that kind of made things simple

17:45 Because I was moving to the place that was my hometown but there have been challenges in terms of the life here right after getting used to the comforts there after getting used to driving on roads there or the cleanliness and the food there it takes a little bit of time to get adjusted but then again it's home so you can't you can't complain like I remember initially I used to like swear at people who were driving rashly or who were not following the rules and everything. But now it's like after like probably like the first 6 months it just is like ah it's okay it's India like it's it's common here right what they say like when in room be a Roman you tend to kind of get adjusted to that some places where we did find challenges is definitely the traffic right and we are big foodies right we try and explore a lot of places

18:46 So initially our immune systems had to get used to it. So, we were falling sick more often than usual. but then again, those also got sorted with time. Yeah. And we also had to kind of get used to life in general here, right? Like things like temperature like most of the houses in Bangalore probably don't have a they don't have like temperature control systems. So just getting used to the heat probably the mosquitoes and everything. Not that I'm complaining like I'm completely fine with all of that but we had to like think of ways in which okay do we get a cooler? Do we get a AC right? do we like get some sort of a cover to all the windows to stop the mosquitoes. So these are all things that we had to like go through in the initial six months to one year so that we get adjusted to the life here.

19:44 No, makes sense. So I think you mentioned about the move back, right? And you said you took an internal transfer and then the place for you to decide like was it like close to the family or is it more on the job related? So just curious if you can talk about like I think how you decide the place where you want to relocate to. the place was definitely close to the family. Lucky for me that my company also had an office here. So they said you might as well move to Bangalore and work from there. And given it was a pandemic, they were also not really concerned like they can they were like okay you can work from home sort of a thing. but one thing that I would to the company you have a offer letter in hand telling what your salary will be, what your benefits will be, what are some of the clauses that they have and everything. ensure that you read through it and then only make the move be like have have all of this sorted out before you make the move.

20:45 And I say this because I had a bad experience when I moved. because as I said right I was supposed to move in May and I had to move in March. They promised me a salary but after moving they said oh you know what we cannot afford that much because it's the pandemic and they cut my salary by like 10 15%. like because it was a pandemic and I didn't have any other option, I had to kind of go with them. So, companies tend to do that. so just be careful and have your ducks in place before you kind of move especially with a job. I know a lot of people who move without a job too but it's it's okay. But I would definitely advise them if possible have a job in hand before you move. Sure. And sometimes it might not be so easy to convince the employers that you're actually serious about the move unless you know there there is a like you know a tick for tat kind of a thing like you know based on your situation but ideally like if you can find the job

21:45 Before the move that would be the ideal scenario. Yes. Yes. so along the same

21:51 Lines so how do you compare the work culture like I know you worked for few years before moving to US. you worked there for a decade and I think sounds like you started working in the same company after the move back. so overall how do you rate the work culture you know in 15 years ago or 12 years ago versus now in terms of the progression and in general for any anything that you can share about work culture in India. work culture in India. I'm sorry to say this but it's probably been the same since since the last 20 years or so. I still see people slogging through the evening, through the night here. there is little or no respect for personal time here, right? that being said, a lot of that a lot of it is also upon you, right? to kind of put boundaries and say, "Hey, you know what? I'm just going to work till 7:00 in the evening. I'll try and get everything done by 7. If not, I'm not

22:53 Be going to be able to work after 7 because that's my family time or I have my own personal life to attend to. it's it's like what I have observed is at least like if you start putting those boundaries, people will actually start respecting that too. Like okay, I know Karthik is not going to be available after seven, so if I have to set up a call with him, it's probably going to be before 7 sort of a thing. Yeah. the other thing that is probably working for me is that there are two days where my company says okay if you want you can take a break in the middle of the day finish off all your personal work but then be available later in the day so that you have some time to leazison between us and India times. So that's working out well too like you get a break between 4 to 7 and then 7 to 9 you kind of work so that you have some time with the US counterparts. also moving into a senior or mid-management role kind of helps because that lets you set those boundaries right whether versus when you're like a senior developer or a developer sort of position that kind

23:55 Of is hard for you to kind of say okay I'm not going to work after 7 but things are improving for sure like I have seen companies also telling okay you need to take care of your personal life and everything but I I feel like there's a long way to go in terms of the work hours and how much time we spend with office. Got it.

24:18 So if you have to redo this move back to India, right? Is there anything that you would do differently than what you have done? I would probably have set up some time to like visit all my friends. but other than that, I think I had most of the things planned except for this surprise that sprung upon us. we we wanted to cover like a a few more places in the US before we kind of made the move. that is something I don't know I might get a chance to go back there again and see all of these places. but more or less I think we had it well planned like it it will never go as per the plan like you plan a 100 things not all 100 things will go as per the plan right and when you're making something as huge as this if you get 70 to 80% of it right I think you should be proud of what you have done so and that's pretty much the range that I was in like I probably got like 70 75% of what I had planned right but then after coming back to India you can

25:19 Still take care of some of the things like if you ensure that you have like a working phone phone number and everything you can still like talk to the people there in the US like a lot of the US companies also have like these chat feature so if you have something left that did not happen when you were there you can definitely do it when you're here yeah for sure was there

25:41 Any time like you felt like you repented your thought about moving to India like or you know is there something that you missed I mean and never repented moving back to India. I've always been like I knew I wanted to come here. I've been happy. I see my kids spending time with his grandparents and with my wife's parents and everything, right? And and just the general extended family and friends. It's it's it's I mean I wouldn't think twice about not having to make that move, right? I'm happy that I made the move and I happy that I made it in the right place. That means that definitely I miss a few things about the US like driving on the streets there. It's it's it's relaxing there whereas here it's taxing right. So sometimes when you feel like okay I just want to relax my mind and I want to go on a long drive. you cannot probably the food like I am a big fan of some of the burgers and the thigh food there. even though Bangalore is very cosmopolitan, I think

26:43 They have like an Americanized version of the cuisine, right? So that is something that I definitely miss and obviously the place and the people, right? As I said, I had a lot of good friends there many of whom are still in touch with me u and just miss spending time with them. That is probably some of the things that I kind of miss, but good thing is that with technology, you can still kind of keep up with some of them at least. Yeah, makes sense. Is there any advice that

27:12 You would give to people who are considering about moving to India? You know, from your experience staying here in India for 5 years, what are the things that you would suggest them? Sure. So, one of the main things that I would definitely suggest is you should mentally be prepared to make the move, right? until you are mentally convinced I would not suggest anybody to even think about making that move. Right? If you're not convinced, it is going to be hard to convince everybody else. the second important thing is if you're married, your spouse definitely has a say in that and she should be she or he should be on board with making the move. that is very very important not just for you to have peace of mind while making the move but also after making the move. Right. In addition to that, try and sort out the financial things that you have like and a lot of people might probably have houses there. They might have invested in a lot of other stuffs. Try and consolidate all of them before you kind

28:12 Of make the move. figure out what you want to do in India, right? Where you want to stay, what job you want to do, how are you going to sustain yourself for the first few months, right? Have have some sort of a plan for that. and and in in general right if you can if you're financially capable of doing it probably like take a trip for like a month or two months like an extended vacation sort of a thing come to India try and figure out some of the things here which really really helps right especially when you have kids and everything they get to see how the country is like even you tend to like if you have if you're here for more than a month right you kind of tend to do some daily co chores and even driving in the traffic and all you're mentally ready for like you're getting mentally prepared for the move. So those things would definitely help if you're thinking about the move. Yeah, for sure.

29:09 So I think no, thanks a lot for sharing all those details. So maybe couple of quick questions. I think more

29:16 Like a rapid fire kind of a questions. What's one thing that people assume before moving to India and that's not true? I've seen a lot of people assume India was the way they left it. like for example be it in terms of traditions or be be it in terms of what you can find here but I think they're missing the point that India has changed a lot over the last 10 years right sometimes I keep joking that Indians in America are more traditional than Indians in India like in terms of celebrating festivals and everything right like India has has definitely been a lot lot advanced in the last 5 10 years there is no cuisine that you cannot find here there is no company or no startup that you cannot find here where you can get a good job. So a lot of people assume that we are still like in the 2010 2015 sort of a time frame but India has changed. Yeah. the next question is what's the biggest challenge that NRIs face like who are thinking about moving to India? Yeah. So after

30:17 The move definitely like things like pollution, traffic, finding the right place to live, finding schools. So these are some things that would require a lot of your attention especially in the first few months. but then once you have them figured out right it's it's as good as you are in the US right you don't have to worry about them later and I know you have been accessing your accounts right I think you mentioned about consolidate all the accounts and all that stuff like is there certain thing that you use for your OTPs like you know from a you know phone perspective anything that you can share like how are you able to access these accounts like from here so I I was on Google I I made the switch to Google just before I moved because it had like cheap international roaming and everything and I went with the Google subscription for about 6 months after the move itself.

31:10 And then I switched that number to Google voice. So I still like if there are OTPs or anything that are required for my banking needs and everything they still come on to that Google voice. the only thing is you'll have to provide a actual phone number and not like a virtual phone number for it to remain active. So I just have some good friends who are not like using some of their numbers and I just provided that. So that is kind of working for me. Got it. Okay. No, thanks for sharing that. yeah. So thanks a lot for taking the time and sharing your experience with us and really appreciate you know you taking the time and talking to us today. Thanks Ain. It was it was like a good jump into the past for me as well. Thanks for having me. Exactly.

31:56 Yeah. Especially for five years I think you know you've been through you know some memory lane like especially thinking about your planning like the thought process of moving back to India. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks.