Watch: We Chose India Instead of Waiting for Our Green Card | 13 Years in India

3:02 So, our relationships are very good as such and we thought that, you know, during our youth it was all fine, early years are fine, but we are not able to see that as we get old and stay in US itself. So, that's that's there's a feeling that, you know, probably India's better and you know, we will be looking for, you know, you know, staying with our relatives and near and dear ones as such. >> Yeah, so family was one big reason, definitely. And when we got married, we were very sure that, you know, we will explore the world. We like to travel. Both of us are foodies and we like to travel, but we don't want to settle and we don't want to retire in the US because you know, you're always an alien. You irrespective of the number of years you live, irrespective of the citizenships you get, you still are going to be a brown skin or a, you know, Indian per per per se. And also the another another factor is that our kids, we had we had two kids.

4:01 We are blessed. Now they're all, you know, beyond the teenage. So we didn't want them to have that disconnect from the family back home. So grandparents used to travel for couple of months, but there there was always be be a disconnect because when they come for a month, they cannot have that kind of connect because of you know, various reasons you're traveling you and then, you know, the the cousins in India would not be able to connect. So that was one another reason we didn't want them to lose lose that culture connect that, you know, you are from your heart you're Indian you might be a US citizen, but from your heart you're an Indian. So you need to know who apart from your parents and grandparents who your extended family is, you know, whether it's my side or his side. So that was another reason we wanted to be back and have them their you know, early years you know, schooling done and then the world is open You can go wherever you want. You have, you know, you have the right.

4:58 >> So it's not about what was happening at that time, right? You were thinking about how the life would be in the future and you made a decision at that time. So if you have lived in US forever, where what do you see happening? >> Okay, I'll take that one. So for me, I think Sumit had told me when we had two kids we had two kids by the way we we are blessed with two kids one boy and one girl. They both are in teenage now. So he had told me that if you have to live in the US forever, you have to let them be. You cannot have them imbibe the Indian ways of, you know, living and then outside when they are with their friends American friends, they have they are confused and they have to be American because they want they would want to be like that. So you have to not control have that control that no no, you can't eat this. You can't go there. You have to be back at, you know, all that. So, as a mother, that was a fear I had. That was one.

5:52 Second thing was, I think to me, as we grow older, I was also thinking that there'll be a the parents would not be able to travel as much as we want them to be. And for us also, it would be a challenge because there was a lot of paperwork that you need to do. We were on H-1B for the first few years, then we were on EAD. And you know, you have to always maintain the status. You have to have that document advanced parole, right? So, you have to always have that, you know, and there will be emergencies at home, back home. Your parents are aging, everything. So, I always had that fear that, you know, as as we grow older, it will be difficult for us to connect and to come to India every, you know, so often because there'll be responsibilities for kids, for ourselves, our jobs, etc. So, that was what one thing that had always in my mind that I don't want to be in that situation where I would have to think to go and meet my family.

6:41 Yeah. And >> Yeah, you know what she covered, just to add on to that. I definitely I was very clear that if my kids are going to be in US and, you know, growing there, don't want to confuse them to have, you know, Indian culture as well as American culture having having a different life inside the house, outside different. I mean, it is possible. It's not about not not possible, but I don't want to confuse them and kind of give them that, you you you have to carry the both Indian and the American legacy. >> ABCD >> So, that's the something which that definitely was a concern as such.

7:26 As she was saying that, you know, connect with the family, not able to, you know, travel so easily or so often as such. And our parents are definitely growing older. The definitely wanted during their old age us to be part of, you know, giving them support whatever we can. so today my father and mother both are 82. When we returned it was around 70. So, definitely want to be part of, you know, the family to support them as much as we could. So, those are definitely the things which we could have not done if we would have been living there and probably having a some sort of a guilt that when the family, when the parent needs us, we couldn't do that. And I see that guilt in many of the, you know, people we know.

8:24 >> I also want to, dive into this word you used fulfillment, right? I mean, there was something that was missing while you're living there even though you had these good careers, kids, everything, right? What was that? I mean, you know, what is that? How do you define the fulfillment and, what is that what you're missing? >> So, I will tell you, and she can add. I was every morning in US when I wake up, right? You know, what, what new thing has been done? Is there some new announcement economically or any other way? Political development and all that. And I start thinking that I'm now living in US from so long, but there is an urge that what's happening back home, right?

9:14 Or within the family and all that. You know, that's in my the that that mind is somewhere still in India. Still trying to see what's happening in our own country and all that. and, you know, that tells me and even, you know, when we when we kind of, live our life daily, there is always a feeling that it's not 100%. See, infrastructure and everything all everything is best in US. Nobody can, you know, debate on that. But that's not everything. That's not life is not just about having a big bungalow or great cars and everything. That doesn't fulfill you. And people people need to understand that. And I'm recently having a family conversation on this same topic. So, you know, when you when you stay outside India, then you know more value about India. That I mean, you you still have the good friends over there.

10:15 You celebrate the your festival. But somehow it's very difficult to actually pinpoint what is what is that missing that will be it's like, you know, you are if you're not fully integrated, I would say you will miss at some point which probably your own country can fulfill. >> Got it. >> To me, I think that the connection with the family that kids wouldn't have if we were there forever, right? They will always be be an an you know, accent the kids with accent who would come to India for a month or so and they would never have that connect with the cousins and the extended family. Of course, you know, grandparents would be coming and spending time with them, but not everybody in the family. So, I think that is something that I always wanted that my good kids should know where, you know, what their roots are, where they belong to. And that's what they have done. They have lived here for good 12, 13 years since we came. And now my son is already gone to Europe for his undergrad. He's he's, you know, so the world is open for you. You but you you still know that back home there is a

11:17 Family beyond your parents who's, you know, who's looking for you. So, now they have a very good connect with their cousins, with his brothers' family and my brothers' family and my parents and his parents. So, that's what we wanted that they know that there's an ecosystem here as well apart from just having a friend circle you know in in back in US and you know we had our Indian family friends that that's but that's I mean that's still you know it's a friend circle but when you say the ecosystem you you have got to have your you know cousins your extended family that is there to look after you they also love you so I think that's what we have successfully done now you know they they they know the extended family they want to meet them they want to spend the festival with them so that's that's that's what they is going to pull them back whenever they grow in their lives they will also want to come back you know to us so that's that's what we have in Bible in them now is what I feel.

12:14 >> So when was the exact moment you thought that living in US is not for you right you want to move back so you can talk through like how you made the decision because it didn't happen the first year second year fifth year it happened after leaving there for 12 years like when was that moment and what was going in your mind when making the decision? >> I would say I mean as I was saying that see we we we are we were definitely have this in mind that one day we will go back. >> But I guess everybody has that in mind in every party in US you must have noticed people always talk about R2I when will we go but not many people can take that decision. >> 80% discussion in the those parties are going back to India. I'm I'm thinking and all that and so I mean I think the time we start getting serious is somewhere around 2009 I would say. so we came back here on 2013 but

13:15 2009 and so I think if I remember properly that is the time which you know we we started know we we have to now start plan my son is already 2 year old by the time I said my daughter was not even there at that time but at that is a time that you know what if not now once the kids grow up it will be much more harder right I mean and again to do the justice that you know if they are already 12 13 or 15 years old and then kind of uprooting them and then that will be hard for them that will be hard for us. So my point was that if the son my son and as I said daughter was not even there there if they are like 5 6 year old and when at that time if we plan to come back here that will be the ideal right then then then you know kind of we can start because the son will be probably going to the standard first and all that and I think the economically also I start

14:15 Seeing that US in future it will not have the same reputation or same plot in the world what it was there earlier before 2005 and all that I mean those things add up of course you know people can debate about that but I can see and I can see that India is growing there will be opportunities and all that in future although the year we selected 2013 was the not the best year in terms of the jobs and all that the whole economy is down but just to pinpoint I think it is 2009 or so was a time when we start getting the really serious hours. >> How did you select 2013 I mean 4 years ahead right I think you know why 2013 like did you say like okay we are moving in this year or is there a milestone that you are tracking and okay we want to hit these then I think we'll be making move.

15:12 >> that was the year where our son already was going to a day we both were working and the son was also going to day care then he start he started his preschool and now I even forgot elementary school or something. I think he started with that >> What was that? >> Kindergarten. >> Kindergarten, yes. So for 1 year. So our thought was the more delay we do, the more difficult it will be for him to come and adjust and start the language because in India I know you have to also study the regional language and I see there's a struggle. So we thought if we have to do it, we have to do it now. And honestly when we see our friends and when we see other families no offense, but people always have that thought of coming back, but they always keep an option to come back to US because they would wait for, you know, we had our EADs. We would have if we waited for another couple of years, we would have got our green card and we would have got our citizenship. So we thought if we are taking a decision, it has to be a solid decision. There's no looking back then.

16:09 We will have challenges. We have lived there for 12 years. Kids are born there. They will not be healthy. They will have challenges in eating food. They will have challenges in eating, you know, because they they were born you know, brought up with mac and cheese and you know, no spices, right? So they they had that kind of taste buds. So but then both of us were very sure that if we are taking decision, there's no looking back. So if we are going, we have to start our son in the first grade so that he starts his schooling and he has that settlement by the time. And daughter was just 2 and 1/2 years. You won't believe when when I came and we'll probably share the story of how we did the move. My daughter did not talk in school for 2 months. She was only 2 and 1/2 months years old. She Her teachers used I put her in a Montessori school in Bangalore. Her teachers used to tell me, "Ma'am, we don't know what language she knows because she only talks in a sign language. She doesn't speak because she was shy. She used to talk at home.

17:02 >> Yeah. >> The kids have that fear that, you know, if I talk in accent, they will make fun of me. Though she was too small, even my son, right? So you have that fear that if you grow and if you come from US, if you are on boiled water, you know, you have to and if you are say I can't eat because, you know, my stomach So people they have a perception, right? Okay, he's he's acting like you know, American or something like that. So that always keeps that in your mind. So we didn't want that for our kids when they grow up that, you know, they have that fear of will I be able to settle? Will I like that place? So if they are too early to think all of that. So when we came, they gelled in very well. I mean, it took some months, of course, it was not easy for me. >> but but over the period they just became Indian.

17:50 >> I mean, see your question to see 2009 we were not sure how much time it will take to prepare, right? But we were just taking that okay, maybe 2012, 2013 as she said that >> Small steps. >> That's the That's the time that he will start on you know >> Grade one. >> Grade one is like first class. I said So that is the time, you know, I basically start collecting lot of information and there was a forum R2I Club forum you might have seen that. That is was really good forum started by gentleman called RRK. I was in the touch with him until recently. So you know, you basically have to plan your financial thing and all that. I kind of figured it with the job, both of us doing the job and all that, it will take that much time. Probably couple of visit to India, look at the schools. In fact, in 2012 also I asked my elder brother to get the admission already done in one of the school in Bangalore.

18:52 So for my son and we actually did that. But with just a thought process that okay, we will probably make it 2012 although it was looking bit tight. So we couldn't. And I think you know, this is one thing that you know, you cannot have a very You have to have a little bit flexibility in your planning. You cannot have some like okay, no, you have to do by this. There are things which are not under your control. So, you have to have a plan, but be flexible with your that plan. Don't don't demoralize yourself that if that's those milestone is not been met as such.

19:32 >> Got it. I think I think overall it's primarily the kids and like upbringing them, you know, that was the primary motive. What are the biggest fear factors, right? I mean, you know, yes, there are positives like you can bring the kids in this environment, you know, the extended family and all that stuff. There are also some biggest fear factors, right? I think, you know, are we making the right decision? What was those fear factors before finalizing this decision? >> I will I will start with that. So, we came in to India in 2012. >> As a visit. >> Unfortunately, as a visit. Unfortunately, that year on December 6th, the Nirbhaya case happened. And my daughter was just 2 and 1/2 years old. And we had to choose the city. I mean, we earlier in the years, Sumit always wanted to go back to Mumbai, but when we visited Mumbai during our visits from US, we said, "No, the infrastructure is not that good. So, we can we have to rule out Mumbai. What next?" Next was we didn't want to go to North India as well. So, his brother is in Bangalore.

20:33 So, we thought, "Okay, Bangalore is a good city and we have good job opportunities as well. So, we'll go to Bangalore." But then, when that Nirbhaya case happened, I was kind of you know, in fear, shocked that are we taking the right decision? Because it's not safe, right? India is not safe, especially for the girl child. And I'm coming from North India. I I can I can relate to that because I know how much of fear we had when we used to go out and my mom never used to let me out of the house beyond 6:00 p.m. and all that. So, I always know that it's not safe. So, then I came back and we came back, I told him, "So, I told Sumit, are we taking the right decision? Are we Are our kids going to be safe?" And then, you know, he he gave his perspective. He's like, maybe you can share. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I mean, see, I mean, definitely when these things happen in our own country, we take it to different level.

21:21 But, you know, I I I think things happen in US also. as an Indian, sometime we kind of since we are not fully integrated in that society, I mean, we still 80 90% with our own Indians. I think we don't know the gravity of the things which happen there also, right? Or we we are kind of living in a little bit of I would say secluded, right? So, I probably gave this the same thing that, you know what? things happen here also. I think we have to see what positive things are there and all that. And but but those are definitely genuine fears as such. And another thing is you know, whether we will be able to adjust I mean, we will be able to adjust, but how soon? And with respect to the kids, right? That, you know, having a having a a probably a classroom with just 20 people in US in a class and having a classroom of 35 40 people. It's a It's a different ballgame as such. And the

22:23 The the kind of you know, the attention, schooling, and everything, and medical facilities, and all that. But more I research, I I I I I find out that, you know, if you're living in a metros Hyderabad, Bangalore, you know, the medical facilities and all that is on almost on par, you know. And in fact, sometime we have much more option and all that. So, I mean, definitely when she came came back with that 2012 vacation, she had a lot of apprehension and all that. we we we talked through, we see, you know, what are the reason. And then and of probably plunged and took the risk the with the thought process that you know in India we have all the support system. Right? We have family at the both the side.

23:11 At in US we have friends but we don't have any, you know, family and we still take so many risks. I mean I used to give her that example that when I came to the US, you know, I didn't even get the credit card. You have to basically apply for a debit card. We take so much pain when we go to the US. All those things that we forget that and while moving back >> Here's the thing. >> the country which we know, country which we have all the support system, we are reluctant to take that risk. So, I think those are the discussion were happening and, you know, we try to see that, okay, what is the worst-case scenario? What will happen, right? >> So, those I think was feeling and thought

23:55 Process at that time. >> Got it. No, thanks for sharing that. So, along the line I mean I think you know it's going to the kids, right? What are your thoughts because you are like growing in your careers, financially, you know, growing and improving and all that stuff. Like moving back, how did you think about the other side? Like you know it's straight off, right? I mean you know there are like some things that you would gain, some things that you would lose. What was your thought process in terms of the career options, the financial side while making the decision? >> Yeah, so that was a challenge for sure because I had to quit my job. I was working for a public government thing, pension benefit PBGC so in Washington DC. So, I had no option to, you know, have a transfer. So, I did not do that. So, I had to quit my job.

24:46 And then he had to continue because we need at least one salary to sustain, right? And so so but we are blessed with a family. So, when I came back so we all started this planning in 2012 when we came, we took admission for my son Parth in a school because we we had visited couple of schools and like Sumit said, we had a fear of, you know, how he will adjust in a school like a DPS where there are 40 kids in a class versus, you know, where where he is with two attendants always, you know, paying attention and you know, pampering the kids to the core. but then when we decided, we had his family, extended family, his father-in-law's family. So, I had come and settled. So, job wasn't there, >> I I stayed back. >> He stayed back and he continued until he gets a job. So, I quit my job because one of us had to do it and I had to be with the kids and I had to give them time to settle in with this big change.

25:44 So, that's where we took that risk again that, "Okay, you go because we know that we have a ecosystem, we have a family who can take care." And they, welcome me with open arms. They, you know, never let me feel that I am, you know, coming and staying with them for, you know, we were like six, seven people in the house and, you know, kids kids were also, you know, they used to get sick very easily. My son, even if a ant used to touch his skin, he used to have rashes. You can imagine. So, first couple of months, my brother-in-law and my sister-in-law, they used to rush to the doctor every time and doctor would say, "Okay, >> it's fine, don't worry. It's just an allergy because he's not used to it, his skin is sensitive." But I we didn't get you know, because I know a lot of people do take that reason also to go back to the US when they try to, you know, return to India that, you know, kids did not settle. But after all, it's it's a body, right? We have the blood is still Indian. So, you will get used to it. You just have to give some time. You just have to have that ecosystem. And probably we are blessed to have such a family to to support us. And when I

26:46 Came, I didn't have to struggle for small small things like renting a house or, you know, getting a gas connection or things like that Because I was there in the home, I just had to focus on myself and my kids. Just to have them that you know, move to have the transition to the move and settle in in with all these health issues going on. But yes, job was always there in the mind that you know, will I get? But then again, I think job market wasn't bad and we were in the right place. So the suggestion that we always give to our friends who want to come back is that the most important thing is that you don't need to choose the right city for you. If you are in IT, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Noida, Gurgaon, these are the places. If you plan to come back to Mumbai, you won't survive. Because it's not there's not much option. There are options, but you know, you have to you have to always think about you know, what you want to do and where you want to be. That's what would make your move easier. Because if you are in a metro city, then you know, it's it is easy for you to maintain that similar lifestyle if you

27:46 Have the money, right? And you usually have. So that's I think job security was one thing, but then eventually I think Sumit can continue how we moved to get the jobs and then settle in. yeah, if you want to >> Yeah, I mean in in terms of planning, so what what we did is as she was saying that she came in June 2013. Right? When the kids' session is school session is just about to start. and they came to the Bangalore and I was there because I don't have the job in India. and I was working with the US MNC in healthcare. But you know, I still have not figured out you know, whether I will go to the another company, whether I will get the transfer from my parent company in US to India company because things are different. It was not that easy. It took me almost 6 months to to get the transfer in my company and that too

28:47 It acted as an you know you are as a new employee in India. So definitely things were not in my hand but you know we took a call. I sent the kids and her to India. They were staying with my brother and brother and parents and all together. That way they have the support system also. And then I somehow able to get the you know first approval to that okay transfer may happen and things like all that thing. Although it takes another So properly if I tell you in Feb 2014 the decision came. So from June to Feb. So and I I reached here in October end and I keep working on a US time zone from October to the February. Right? So I mean you somewhere you have to pay the price.

29:35 You know the things will not happen just like that and specially as I was telling you 2013 it was not a good year for the job search and all that. There was a lot of things. So So I mean sometimes you have to think and just execute it. A lot of surprises will come and all that. >> And believe in yourself. Like if you have taken a decision, you know you have to stick to it. You can't keep getting or making excuses to go back. If you keep that option open, you will always want because that life is good, right? That life is in in life in US it's a dream dream life. You always would want to go back but if you have made up your mind, you have to stick to it and let it be then there will be challenges everywhere even if you move a city. There are different parameters or different things that you need to settle in. So I mean it's it's just a matter of having a belief in yourself that this is your country. You will settle in eventually. It will take time but you will.

30:32 So let's continue on the planning itself, right? I think you kind of touched about so the initially Miss Naina moved with the kids and then you joined I think in 2014 or like in October 2013 I think and then you know continued with that. What about I think on the I think you mentioned about the city like I think you decided like to go with the Bangalore because your brother was there. What about I think on the job side because you're still planning for the internal job transfer like say your company has an office in Bangalore. Was that also an played a role? >> That was funny. The company didn't had an office in Bangalore. So that is funny how we >> So I mean I mean the company that doesn't have an office in Bangalore. They have office in Noida, Gurgaon and in Hyderabad. >> Okay.

31:18 >> As such. So and again as I was telling that I have no idea whether the transfer will happen or not happen. It just It just halfway through you can say that some of the leaders are kind of okay with that but Indian leadership will still you know trying to see and trying to see the what kind of role I I will get into and all that. So the you know it was a after coming here I was in Bangalore in October. I started you know further talking to the folks in our Indian office and all that and that took another five six month but thought process was that okay I have to be flexible. I have to continue search in the local market as well as you know in my own company. Try to see what can be done, right? So to to be honest the things were not clear till January as such. You know the

32:19 First problem the there was a proper interview happened between me and the India engineering lead leader here in January and it concluded somewhere in a fab couple of rounds actually three round actually and then you know I joined in March. They asked me okay where where you want to join?" They have a choice in Gurgaon and Hyderabad. Till the time Bangalore there was no office. I chose Hyderabad. I have never been to the Hyderabad, but I knew that I don't want to join in Gurgaon >> as such because of my relatives who already mentioned that, you know, we know that and plus you know, my brother was in Bangalore. He know the Hyderabad very well. He also suggested that it's a great city and all that. You should try that. And my mind is okay.

33:10 What what what I know where I don't want to go. Let me try something fresh. Take a risk. I'm taking anyway so many risks, right? If it if it doesn't work out, I will go back to Bangalore. Bangalore is always an option, right? But but you know, to the the job market was really really bad. You have You keep applying. Nobody One of the problem I I think you were asking what were the problem I faced, you know. One is in India, the people don't call for the job, you know. Unlike US, people come with the I still I get the email, you know, ask for some roles and all that. In India, hardly people reply, especially at that time and nobody calls you, right? For whatever reason and all that. So, it was hard. It was hard to get the call at that time. I mean, there are some other challenges like, you know, when you go out on the road after driving 12 plus years outside India, you do feel like traffic this is chaotic and

34:10 All that. But these are smaller one. You know, you you you may you may curse at this at somebody and all that. But but you know, at the end at the core, you know that, okay, this is just temporary thing. You will get used to and all that. So, I would say job at that time was a biggest challenge to get. And then when we moved to the Hyderabad, she started applying. Unfortunately, within 5-6 months, she she got the job. A job Things start working, but before it start working, you definitely have to have probably a year to give yourself. And that will be tough.

34:52 >> Lot of open questions given the move, like, you know, in Bangalore, Hyderabad, like where to live, like what happened. So, I think you kind of address one piece of the puzzle at a time, and then, you know, basically So, let's talk about on the financial planning side, right? I think, you know, you've been there for 12 years. You have assets, like also, before the move, have you thought about is there certain corpus that you want to achieve? And did you think through those lines? anything that you can share on that? And then also, like what you planned or did with your financial assets, like in terms of leaving there, bringing it here, and all? >> Sure. I mean, definitely the the forum which I was telling you, the you know, R2I Club forums, that has educated me a lot in terms of what what you should be looking for and all that.

35:40 But to be honest, you know, I didn't decided any a particular number that that much of you know, corpus I should have. I have a fairly good I mean, I I do have some real estate already in India. I have back in 20 2009, I came and I have invested in a real estate here in Bangalore. and I do have some property. So, I have some you know, real estate properties and all that, but I don't have I would say the liquid you know, cash either in India or US to the very substantial number. you know, the point was that, you know, I mean, to be honest, like I I didn't decided as any number I should reach this number, then only I will go back to India. That was not the my thought process.

36:32 Fairly good enough in terms of overall my portfolio and all that. I definitely started putting money in Indian mutual fund or stocks. I think 2005 2006 and all that. So had it's fair valuation but it's not great enough. It just journey is that okay, come back here, see and then understand the market and continue to kind of invest whatever I can but at that time, you know, the economy was not doing in the rate. So I pretty much went with the open mind not with the that, you know, although I see in those forums a lot of people are struggling and very much hooked up. If I achieve this target then only I will move. Some somehow I I couldn't agree with that or I I couldn't like, you know, that should not be my but otherwise I thought that I would be better in the US if that is the way.

37:31 >> So yeah, that that's that's >> This is a take. It's a give and take. I mean you have to compromise on something to achieve something. If you If you want to achieve that, you might lose on the other piece which is important, the family, the kids, right? The kids growing up and then they will start saying you don't want to go back. So you have to balance it and see where is the risk which you can take and that's where we decided. >> But that but just in terms of planning, you know, I definitely from that forum I understood okay, I have to move my 401K to IRA and all that. Both of us what to do and all those those things were there and how in a standard way I would take out the money if I have to take out and there are very great financial expert in that forum.

38:17 That definitely helped with the questions, answers and all that. But yeah, that that was pretty much, you >> Got >> spoke too much on that. >> just one quick question. So, do you have like a house? Did you sell it or rent it out or anything like that? I think at the time of the move from the car. >> funny point. So, we started looking for a house very badly. We thought we should buy. Everybody around us was buying a house. It's like why not us? We are We shifted apartments couple >> in the US, right? In the >> Yes. in US. And we almost had decided. And for some reason we didn't do it. And now we thank the day we we thought we have to go back to India. We thank our stars we did not invest because that was not the right decision, I think. >> So, that was 2007, early 2007. And then at that time, you know, she has not actually started working at that time. And we just stopped looking at the market, you know, things are not going well in the US market. But, we were very close to sign

39:17 The agreement. And somehow we thought, "Okay, let's wait. Job market is not doing that great. what if, you know, my my job has some problem and all that?" And she she actually started working in US 2008 as such. So, and we we are glad that we didn't took that decision because that would have impacted us in, you know, >> Or would have been another one big another thing to pack up, right? To sell or to rent or whatever. So, we didn't want to do that.

39:50 So, you mentioned that there is a trade-off when making this decision, right? I think in order to gain the family presence and all that stuff, there is something that you have to give up. Now, looking back, you know, living in India for 13 years, what are the things that you think you have given up as a family? >> Yeah, I mean, see, I mean, in terms of trade-off, I mean, people do say that, "Okay, the you know, the work-life balance and all that, right? I see it differently. Of course, you know, I'm still working with my parent company in US and all that. So, my evenings are busy. But, that also give me in the morning that I don't start my day before 11:30. Right? So, it give me that and throughout the day it's there are some flexibility and all. So, yeah, there is trade-off that your evenings are busy, definitely in the again, because you're 60 70% of the people are in IT is working with the US one. So, but then you get used to

40:52 That. You kind of find out the way how to kind of manage your day as such. But, you know, I don't work on a weekends. You know, hardly and all that. other trade-offs yeah, I mean >> Work life balance is one thing, yeah, >> You can definitely there is >> we see our counterparts in the other countries. I also work for MNC. that they 4:00 p.m. Friday they will shut. >> But, we here in India we will say, "Okay, no, it's fine." So, I think that's the cultural thing that we all have even in US if there are Indian people working >> I was just sooner you adjust to that, better it would be as such. And make sure that, you know, you give enough time to family at least on a weekends and all that. And this way, you know, so take example for many days myself and her you know, take our kids to the school, drop off, and take them when possible and all that. During that time you're spending with them, right? You're

41:55 Asking, "How's your day going on?" and all that. Because you're not able to spend evening. I mean, good thing is her evenings are comparatively free, because she's working mostly with the Asian you know, teams and all that. I'm working with the US. So, one of us is there >> Yeah. with that as such. >> So, so that has but food is one thing which I think in US I get so many different I I and both of us like to kind of explore more. Oh, although in India also we have that. But, you know, over the period when you have spent 12 years in a country, you you have developed the taste buds specifically for those whether it is Mexican, Thai, and all that. Even though we get it in in the Hyderabad excellent food. love this city but but your palate, your taste buds >> Still crave for that.

42:44 >> crave for that. So, so some of those things.

42:52 I want to go back to this comment you made about your daughter who didn't speak for 2 months. That's such a like, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm very surprised to hear that, right? I think at at young age they were so conscious about certain things. So, can you expand like how did they adapt and what was going on? And also you mentioned about, you know, your son going through this hospital visit. So, like maybe how was the transition for the kids? >> The transition for kids and I don't think for my daughter it was consciousness because she was too young to understand the accident and all. But, I think she is inherently or by nature she is a little shy. well, though she will not agree to that. She doesn't agree. She now she's 15. So, she says, "No, I'm not." but, I think it was just not being open. She's she with the new people around she was she was not comfortable. But, at home because she had her, you know, uncle like she calls her him bade papa,

43:54 Badi mama, dadu, dadi, you know, the grandparents, the cousins. She would talk all day. She would like have all her you know, this thing. >> And she come back. >> And when she goes to school, yes, she somehow she didn't want to open up because she thought she was a stranger. So it took her time. So yes, for kids it wasn't easy. Even for my son, but fortunately the city we chose the school we chose we chose we chose. My kid my son the teachers that had there that were there for him they welcomed him a lot. They made him feel comfortable. They made did not you know let the other kids bully him for the reason for the for the accent he had and I think it was not just my son there were other kids as well. So that was an advantage we had. And definitely health issues, you know, every bug bite you have you'll have a you know big bump on your eye or in your feet or rashes and all that. So that was there, but then as I said the family was there, right? If I was alone I would have struggled big time, but because I had family they were there to tell me which

44:55 Doctor to go to what medicines to take, you know, what you could do, how you could make the kids feel comfortable, what kind of food they should be eating. So it took them time. But end of the day I mean it was all good and definitely Sumit not being there was also a big I would say a vacuum a void for me because I was there with you know, this with with without him with the kids settling them in and you know, it was difficult for me as well, but I think it it's just because we have a loving family it just it was very easy. I didn't feel that you know, I was lost. I why did I come and all that. It was sometimes I mean that was there.

45:38 >> So continuing on the kids, how did you choose the curriculum? Like you know, where they wanted to join and also like you know, because they spent more than 12 13 years. Maybe you can talk a little bit on the undergrad like the thought process behind it and all that stuff. >> So I think when we started we definitely wanted them to integrate into the system. So we started with CBSE. I mean, my son started first grade in a school good school reputed school in Bangalore. However, my daughter, since she was just 2 and 1/2, she was still yet to learn. She was only in daycare in the US, so we put her in a Montessori school where there was no There was a different you know, kind of environment and you know, helping them build their personality, doing stuff yourself, so that was a good good move for her.

46:27 >> Very good school. >> yeah, it was a very good school. It was run by actually Mahesh Bhupathi's father. Magical Years in in Bangalore. So, that was I think but the curriculum wise, CBSE we started because we want them to have, you know, settle in in the system. But eventually, when we moved back, so my son completed first grade and then this Optum thing, I mean, the organization thing happened that you have to go to the US to Hyderabad. And then we came here. We again continued him in CBSE and my daughter also joined CBSE until I think sixth grade. And then we started some research of where he's inclined towards and what his, you know, And Sumit has done a lot of study. I would give all the credit to him to understand the kids, you know, how they are. So, what suits Parth, what suits Prisha, I mean, both the kids. And then we switched Parth's curriculum from CBSE to Cambridge in sixth grade, I think, right? Sixth sixth grade.

47:24 >> It's actually that the school has the fifth >> integrated grade. It's an integrated. So, Although it is a CBSE, but they're using their own books and all that. and I I can tell you it's a Glendale and we were looking for a a school which has, you know, the sports and other activities apart from the academic. because that's definitely good for us and for them also. And something which we want to kind of continue what we where we started in the US, not just the Cambridge. and I think more or less that school lived up to that expectation in initial years and all that. And then in this from the sixth onward, the flexibility is you choose the CBSE or the Cambridge. So for my son, we chose the Cambridge from sixth onwards. and he was, you know, I I I see that he's right for that kind of studies and all that. And my

48:25 Daughter, we we actually till early ninth we continued till CBSE. >> Thought she's a CBSE kind of because she's very hard working. >> We keep asking her also and she was doing fine without any problem and all that. And ninth again we gave the option to her whether you want to change it because at that age at that grade she started saying that I don't want to do engineering or medical. and she's giving the full kind of thought process in the music being her main carrier. Then I start telling her that do you want to kind of go to the Cambridge because I see there will be much more flexibility in choosing the subjects and all that. so then she moved to the, you know, Cambridge from CBSE in the middle of ninth and she did successfully.

49:15 By August-September she completely moved into the Cambridge. By the time three months is already gone. So definitely and now she just completed 10th grade. She's now into the 11th one. For Parth, who's our son, so he completed the Cambridge till 12th grade. that helped him to kind of you know, give the SAT exam and also understand different aspect and he he himself kind of thought to kind of apply for, you know, multiple universities. My My My work was to kind of bring the whole research and kind of narrow it down and give him that what are the different option. Then, you know, he's the one who chose that and kind of go through the whole process. And he's right now in a Belgium completed his first year. So, you know, you have to analyze each personality.

50:12 You have to see which what will go and when when there is a need for the moment because when I realized that she is my daughter is going to be on a music and all that and I said that then she need a flexibility. Doesn't need to be very heavy academic you know course and all that which CBSE tend to be right. So, that way kind of you know working with them, talking to them and kind of move along this situation. >> There was a funny incident. My son when he came he was six and then when he turned 12 13 he always used to say in the initial years I will go back to US because I want to go to Chuck E. Cheese. That's where that's his memories. My daughter doesn't remember anything. She was too young but he remembers. So, he when he turned 12 or 13 he's like mama now it's more years in India than in US.

51:02 What is happening? I want to go. So, for many years he had always that urge to you know go back and live that life in that school but now he's he's all good and and he wanted to go out and you know explore the world and we give him all flexibility his curriculum and all. So, he could choose you know, he didn't want to go to the US again now after his 12th. He said not US anymore. I know you know what is good for me. So, he whatever industry he wants to choose he it's good in Europe. So, he's now in Belgium doing his undergrad.

51:37 >> I know Mr. Sumit you mentioned something about like understanding the kids learning style their interest and then choosing the curriculum based on that. Anything that you can expand because a lot of families struggle with this decision of IB, Cambridge, CBSE. They think from a language. You have seen someone who started this school all the way from CBSE, someone who switched and then you know different things. Anything that you can share like so that hey that would help the families to think through what could be an appropriate one for the kids. >> Yeah, I mean definitely you know you know CBSE definitely tend to have a lot of academics, languages and problem is that it keep changing every couple of years new direction came from the CBSE and all that and that is the one thing which I knew my son will struggle if he has to learn a lot of new languages and all that, right?

52:33 And he is not somebody who is like you know go through all the books and all that. He's more of a practical practical kind of person, needs project and all. He enjoys a lot of those kind of doing the projects rather than you know going through all the courses and all that. So that is the point that is the time I realized that you know what he will do better if he move to the Cambridge because the you know first he never wanted to write the too lengthy answers which is you know in the Cambridge you can just the idea is you just write two or three lines very very pointed and all that. And I see that he is like that. He's he's not going to elaborate and all that. He's so you have to that's why where I was saying that you have to understand that.

53:25 And I can relate to the corporate culture also. Who wants to write read the you know emails of more than five six lines nowadays, right? So from that perspective also and he as I have mentioned that when he look into the machines and all that he was more in the practicality of that. He can explain at the ninth grade how the engine IC engine work internal combustion this car or that car or different aspect of the car and all that. which I I didn't have that knowledge and all that. So, very practical in thought process and all that. There is no point of forcing him for the I didn't even force him for JEE preparation and all that. I asked him, "Okay, do you want to appear?" Probably asked him at least there for how many appearing. He said, "No, I don't want to do that." I don't want to go there for whatever reason. I mean, reason could be his, but if he's clear in his mind, I'm not just going to force him to do this and that. So, you know, those those are the things which we have to kind of take ourselves

54:26 A little bit back off because we work with the perspective what we know 30 years back. At time we have to kind of switch and let them, you know, discover themselves, take their decision themselves. I can go back and and I can tell him this is available, that is available and all that, but decision should be there once they are in 11th and 12th standard so that they they they are in habit of making the decision by themselves. >> Right. I mean, he's with his US citizenship, with his SAT score, he could have tried without even giving entrance for BITS Pilani or you know, a few other colleges that do accept SAT score for NRIs. But then he was very very clear that I just don't want to do it. So, we didn't want to force our decision on him. We just let him because he's almost was almost an adult then.

55:13 So, you you have to take because when you take a decision, you have to stick to it. >> We make you do something, you'll always come back and say because of you, you know, this keeps on like that. Because of you, I'm I don't want to So, we didn't want that situation.

55:29 >> just one follow-up question on that. I know you mentioned about JEE, right? Like for people who have gone through Cambridge curriculum, like maybe from his class, are they prepared to be ready to excel in the JEE exam? This is one of the concern that people have, right? Okay, if it's more on a Cambridge side, they are not trained or you know, went through the rigor to crack the JEE. Like, what are what's your thoughts and what's your experience from the from their class or from their school? >> So, in his class, there is another one of his friend in Cambridge who who was do I I'm not sure whether he got selected or not. But, I think he did well. >> I think he did. >> Yeah. So, even though he was, you know, doing the Cambridge throughout from ninth onwards and all that, but he himself was preparing and he he he did well. In fact, one guy also got selected in the NIT as such.

56:27 You know about colleges, NIT. I think, yeah, definitely there is an advantage with the CBS. with the JEE, but then I think that's not the limitation. If you are starting early, if you are sure enough, you know, how to what what resources to utilize, you can do with the Cambridge also. People have done it. Multiple students I've seen have done it. Although comparatively less number, but I would say that because you know, even in in JEE preparation, 80-90% is your effort. Rest is, you know, your teachers and other things and all that. It is how much effort you are putting yourself. So, if you are selecting the right resources, maybe coaching or maybe other means, I think you should be able to do it because even I would say Avinash that the the fundamental, the what Cambridge teach and what CBSE teach, 70% of topics are same.

57:27 The way to deliver those topics are different and they may be, you know, what you may be in a Cambridge you might be getting what in 11 you might have covered in a CBSE in 10th. But there are other topics vice versa what you have not covered in 10th in CBSE is already even covered earlier. So, So, I think there is no hard and fast rule. It's it's tapping the right resources and having knowledge okay, if you are going to go for IIT, when to start, where to start, all those things matter. >> I think today also the kids the kids in I mean the zeal to do things it doesn't matter whether you're in coaching or a Cambridge or a CBSE. You should know your child. That is very important because a lot of parents do lack that understanding of what your child is thinking, how you will perform. If your child, you know, you will always know what your child is capable of. And if you then tap on that particular, you capability then you will know that they

58:27 Will excel. If you can't force things on kids. So, if you, you know, if you think your child is can do JEE, you should definitely encourage them, give them all the support and guidance, but you will always know because we do see and Sumit and I always discussed that we still see the parents have that JEE is the only thing. That's not that's not the case. I mean today's world it's so different. You know, people have a lot of opportunities apart from JEE. And there are so many engineers coming out in the market there are no jobs right now. So, you have to look for alternatives. You cannot just have a single track of, you know, JEE is the only thing. That is definitely it's a good thing, it's the best thing, but not every child is meant for that. So, you can't force and send kids to those coaching classes and expect them to excel and everybody to get into IIT.

59:13 That's not, you know, how it works nowadays.

59:19 I know in 2012, 2013, I mean, in 2013 there are a lot of decisions that are open, lot of, you know, not a lot of risk like the risk that you have taken. Now it's been almost 13 years since you've been living in India. So if you have to reflect that, like how do you describe it? Like, you know, if there is a word that you can put it, like, you know, how do you describe the life in the last 13 years in India? >> I would say blessed. >> I think how things have worked out in eventually like we came to Bangalore, we had a family that was the right thing to do because there was nobody. Then it turned out to be Hyderabad, which is the right city for us to settle because we love the city. You know, within a year we decided to buy a house, you know, the the the the the people are good, the city's weather is good, you know, it's not too crowded as Bangalore. So So I think it's just things have fallen into place for us in the right time. Kids have enjoyed their time, of course, as I said in the

1:00:20 Initial few years they used to remember, at least my son used to remember and would want to go back. And we always said, "No, there's no option of we didn't so for us we didn't leave an option open like people say that we have EAD, let's get green card, and then let's get citizenship." If we had gone into that trap, it's a vicious circle, right? If you had gotten into that trap, like let's wait for a few years, get this, wait for there's a milestone, let's get this, and then come then you lose the train here. So if you have made a decision, stick to it, you will believe in yourself and you everything will fall in place. >> I would say the experience overall is enriching experience, right? I mean, the thing which I was telling you there is a full lack of fulfillment and that can only happen if you seek for that fulfillment, right?

1:01:12 Living with the parents, helping them, my brother or, you know, she has no problem visiting her you know, parents in northern India. Otherwise, we have to think from the US. All these things comes with with some cost and that cost you have to pay. Right? So, and and looking back, I think that was one of the best decision. Definitely, apart from living with the family, another thing is seeing your country growing in front of you, in front of your eyes. Of course, there are number of things, number of issues and all that, right? But that that you know, the fulfillment which I was saying that you okay, we are progressing, we are making steps ahead. There is lot need to be done. Seeing Seeing your kids, connecting with your family members and all that, which would have definitely been very difficult if they were lived in outside India as such. And then that it is allowing us to kind of explore different We are

1:02:13 Exploring more countries now than we have explored when we were in US. So, all this combined, it's an enriching experience. I know you made this comment about the country is growing, right? So, you know, someone who moved in 2013 and someone maybe who is considering to move in 2026, how things have evolved, things have changed or any advice that you would give to the families who are like thinking about this? >> See, every every family is different, every person is different. So, you need to find out your own reason and how much you believe on those reason because what will happen is when the things are not as per your liking, you will tend to think that okay, I should have not come here. How First, you have to genuinely don't don't try to copy others and all that. You need to genuinely think about it really what you

1:03:15 Are thinking or what is your reason is good enough for a reason. And I would suggest keep coming to India if you because what will happen if you are coming once in three four years, come to India you get shocked. Because a lot of things have changed when you left India, right? And you may or may not agree and you will find oh cost cost is also very costly in many of the things, right? compared to US sometimes when you see the cost about the all the merchandises all right, it's not it's not less expensive and all that. So you need to find your own reasons. And then believe on that and you know some of the forums and look into you know people talk to the people who have already done learn from their mistakes, learn from their experience and all that.

1:04:08 But just just don't go because other people are talking about and all that. You definitely have to believe in your >> decision >> decision on that that, >> and your priorities. >> on your priorities. Otherwise otherwise it is definitely first one year is going to be definitely challenging, right? And many I have seen I have seen people going back. >> They come and they for one year they try >> It could be anything because you know it could be a genuine reason and it I'm not saying it's a bad bad decision to go back, you know? But I'm just saying that you need to be very grounded in your thought process. Otherwise you will find difficulty and you may tend to see that okay I should go back. This is not I was looking.

1:04:57 So yeah. >> one last question. Now that I think you have lived here 13 years and seen the kids growing up here. When you made the decision to move to India, the kids were still young. They couldn't decide or like you decided for them. If they had the choice to choose in India or America, like what do you think they would have chosen then? You know, knowing how they are. >> So, my son who has the after he completed his 12th has the option to definitely go to the US or other places. He chose not to go to the US after looking at the US universities and right now condition, definitely the cost is much higher and I kind of educated him about the Europe and definitely some Indian university.

1:05:47 So, he he was looking for a mechatronics. And he said that and you know, I also see that there are some good you know, in Germany or in Netherlands and all that. And also he went through the you know, US and all that. He himself made up mind that no, I'm not going to the US. But definitely he wanted to explore the world and he he I will be I'll be honest. He he wanted to like you know, okay, I would I want to do the my you know >> undergrad >> undergrad at least or even masters outside India. And I have given them freedom. Like because to me the first objective is you know, see you have already completed your 14 year 13 14 years. So, now you go anywhere, it it's up to you.

1:06:32 Right? You you are ingrained in the Indian culture. If you have to come back, you will find it that way also. If you have to live abroad or you It's up to you. Yeah. It's your choice. And again, he has a US citizenship, so that is also not the >> Gives them a lot of flexibility to you know, go work. You know, they don't have to worry about visas in a lot of places. >> I I mean as of now right now, definitely he wants to explore the world and do it. He may even settle down and I have no problem with that. But he in his conversation, he understand where we as a country stand, where other parts of the world. So, I think if he would been in the US, he would have known more about the US, but probably not about the world. because the society is like that, right? so, I I think he has much better global perspective now. My My daughter is still, you know, exploring and all that her career. She's thinking about music.

1:07:28 Of course, you know, they all get very much, to be honest, infatuated by all the, you know, all what they see in the you TV and shows. And she watches all the and she Oh, no, you know, these countries will be so great and all that. And I'm I'm okay. Okay, they will explore and they will find out their own way. let's see.

1:07:54 Is there any topic or anything that you want to communicate to our audience that we haven't covered? >> I think that's about it. What advantage as a female, I would say definitely if if I if somebody asked me now if I can go back, I would not because I'm used to the the all the help that I get, like domestic help. you get cooks, you get maids, you know, you get drivers. So, I think it's all about how you want to see yourself in the longer run rather than, you know, looking at the short term that, you know, the life or, you know, living in with family because I believe a lot of people also are not able to take the decision because they have that fear of how we will adjust with the family. So, for us that was not the case. We would always we thought that we will gel in well and we know that we will they will also support us and we will be their support system when they get old, right? Especially the parents. So, for us that was not the case, but I think that is one and then the other part is I think both spouses

1:08:56 Alignment is also very important. In many cases, we've seen that the wife wants to go, the husband doesn't want to, and vice versa. So, that is also something that they should be working out if they are planning because if the alignment is not there, there'll always be a gate open to go back, you know, we we tried and then we you know, I told you it didn't work and all that. So, that option >> It all has to be >> This is very, very important. >> Very important, I would say, and And I it gives you the opportunity to also, whatever small means you can to kind of give it back to the your own country. It could be in your work, how you're guiding the youngster which are coming in in the workforce, or it could be other means, other things which you can give and all that. You can even help your maids, your cook with the you know, different aspect, help them you know, in the guidance and all that. They have their kids and all that. You can do any number of things. You can help in a I'm not asking for something major, but

1:09:58 You know, you know, just to be you know, understand them and all that. All these are small things, you know, it gives you I would say good satisfaction. That's interesting. >> I think the perspective after living there and then coming back, you also have a wider perspective of looking at things, a lot of things which we see is lacking in you know, few of the families who who have yet to explore. So, I think that also helped us, you know, make few decisions, especially for kids, if I would say, right? Understanding how, you know, how the world will be, how the economy is growing. So, people are not explore exposed, and that's why it's it's a limited knowledge that they work on and just go with what the others are doing. So, we have an expanded horizon of, you know, things, how things work there, how things will work here, if you go to Europe. So, my son, we had to get him ready that if you are going outside India, you have to be ready mentally to do everything. And he is doing everything. He's washing dishes, he's washing his clothes. Back in India, he always says, "Mama, all my my you know, they have readymade food. They have They come home for laundry. I have to do

1:10:58 Everything myself. So, but he knew it because, you know, we we have done that, been there, done that, and now it's for you, right? If you want to live that life, you have to also understand these It comes with all these nuances. And he said, "Yes, I will." And he's happy. I mean, I'm happy that we we we are very proud of seeing him. We went to visited him back in March this year during his break, and we saw his ecosystem, and we saw he's settled in very well. He's cribbing not in front of us because it is his decision >> go live outside India and do all this. He has to cook his own food. He has to do his dishes. So, but because it was his decision, and that's the world he wants to be because he said, "I have a social life as well. You You know, I can do so much. I can explore places. I can He's also fond of music, so he can he's a drummer, so he can attend concerts. He can have options for music, you know, play drums himself, be part of bands, you know, do performances. So, he has lots of opportunities as per his liking. So, that's where he's happy.

1:12:01 And if he's happy, we are happy. I mean, it's just a matter of, you know, a few years, and he they'll understand because after age, they have to start taking decisions, which Sumit's always been sure that, you know, I am there to help you. I'm there to guide you. I can financially support you until a certain age, but at the end of the day, it's your life. You have to know how to manage yourself, your body, your health, your food, your hygiene. You know, we at till till some point only we can help that. So, that's what they learn when they go. In India, if I look at kids who go to hostels, you know, they have all the support, and I'm not saying it's bad. I've lived that life with myself, but it teaches you a lot. But perspective differently It's a different perspective when you are, you know, not with that kind of ecosystem. Because when you're sick, you have to manage yourself. You're alone there. You have friends, of course, but they live far, and if there are so many constraints, weather constraints, everything is shut after 4:00 p.m., 5:00 p.m. There are no shops. Just say for you know, pharmacies are closed. So, you have to be ready and you have to understand mentally you have to be

1:13:01 Strong on how this is my body. I have to manage the health. So, that is something I think they they learn which I see already in my son. So, I'm really happy. >> Yes. So, thank you very much. I know it has gone quite a long, but I didn't want it to cut short, you know, capturing all the insights and you know, the nuggets that you have shared. So, really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your story with us. >> it's pleasure was all us because I I can tell you until like 6-7 years when we came back people used to ask me, "So, you live for 10 years and you came to India and you're still happy?" I said, "Why? Why can't I be happy?" Because, you know, it that has that mindset is always there that, you know, life is good there, life is not good here. That is not the case anymore. I mean, if you decide to be happy yourself, you will be happy. It's just your mindset if you need to change and take a decision.

1:13:55 >> You have to trust yourself and you have to trust the others also around you. So, once again, thanks a lot. Really appreciate it, yeah. >> Thank you so much, Avinash, having us. >> Thank you so much.