Watch: The Hardest Decision I've Ever Had to Make Abroad | NRI | 20 Years

3:17 The simple reason is that it's a small company, there's a lot of proprietary stuff and I got into the very proprietary stuff, so they basically wanted me to continue. If I had to continue with the work, either have to be in Europe or here. Europe was totally new for me. I was not sure and my wife never liked cold. She like warm weather, she like the rain, she likes to get out in the rain and everything, you know, just like typical Indian families, you know. So, she was not very comfortable with this extreme cold that we faced and of course Europe was not an option for us at that point of time. So, we He back to India, but it happened that the company that I joined, I actually had a contract with them. like like I won't say written contract, but in the HR level I did actually you know, spelled out, "Hey, you cannot send me for to US for a longer term. You have to I mean I am okay traveling for 2 months, 3 months, but it has to be like wrapped up within 3 to 4 months. You cannot just send me for like years." And they said, "No problem. Yeah, no problem. Just it's going to work like that." And

4:18 That's how it started actually. So I you know, but this time the project was in California. So I ended up in the West Coast. And when I was in West Coast, my mom, you know, while we were in in East Coast, my mom didn't visit it cuz she wasn't you know, feeling well that time. you know, she didn't had the you know, passport also. So that was like taking a long time for her to get us. So I couldn't get her to you know, come to US to you know, visit visit the place. because she has she went with me for you know, every place that I went in Hyderabad or Bangalore. She was she was there, you know, she she visited the places. She was the only one. So when I came to the West Coast, California, we really liked the weather. My wife kind of likes it, you know, this is great. And it happened that she met with a Bengali community here. And my wife is into drama. And that Bengali community community was about to organize Durga Puja, which is the one of the biggest event on Bengalis. And during that Durga Puja, we

5:20 Bengalis are more into cultural thing than the religious aspect. I won't say that not every Bengali, but most of the Bengalis you will see in the cultural part of the Durga Puja is more important than the actual religious part of it. So of course they had a lot of plays. They wanted to put up a play. And my wife has been professional you know, actress in small like you know, stage performance. So she was with Soumitra Chatterjee's group. So, she you know, she kind of liked that. She was like, "Okay, I'm going to be you know, I'm definitely going to take participate." And eventually she was basically directing the play, helped you know, helped the kids play and then also did a adult plays. So, she kind of got involved with the community. And at that point, I think you know, I you know, told my you know, wife that I think probably I can you know, bring my mom for a few and we can stay here for a year. The kids are like, you know, you know, one one is 6 months, the other one is like 1 year, 2 years. So,

6:21 It's fine. We're going to spend here for a year and then we go back. That never changed, man. That that that that just like I'm still stuck here. So, that is how it ended up in Yeah, cuz over the time as the the kids grow, you know, started growing, they started building friendship here, community here. We started mixing with a lot of people here, you know, both desi non-desi. So, eventually what happened is that we ended up growing our own community kind of, you know, Indian community, Bengali community. And then you know, of course non-Indian Bengali communities also there where, you know, I got involved with running like as you said, you know, I got into running, got into you know, soccer more and then started doing, you know, coaching here, you know, soccer coaching. So, everything that I kind of like dreamed of like in terms of doing other than job. And you know, before we even realized the kids are already grown up.

7:20 They have a you know, they have you know, built good friendship here. You know, friendship as they say, you know, childhood friendships are for life. And that's what they were going through and we were kind of thinking, you know, is it going to be okay for us to basically take the kids back now? Cuz they really have these all these friends from you know, from school, from the community, from the activities that they do. so, it would be hard for them to kind of like, you know, not That That's what was the main thing that we basically started, you know, in 2015, 14, I would say. We started thinking that maybe maybe at this point of time we might have to, you know, start thinking about, you know, living over here. But But But Yeah. Yeah. That's That's how I ended up in >> I know it's not an easy decision. I mean, even the initial idea was to spend few years, but as things evolve and kids are growing up, it's a very, very complicated and tough decision for a lot of folks to make.

8:19 So, let's I think I know you mentioned about your mother. you know, she traveled to all the places that you have visited. So, maybe What was your relationship with your mom growing up? I know you're very close, so maybe you can talk a little bit on that. >> Yeah. So, me So, we are like brother and sister, basically. My sister Actually, unfortunately, my my mom is an amazing woman. Like, I I I probably I'm actually started writing a book for my mom. like a like a biography, you know, cuz I think, you know, we need you know, I need to I need to share her, you know, experience. She She grown up in Bangladesh, you know, and during the partition, like during the partition means like the partition of India during the independence. That's time she has to move here because of the the violence that was created during that time, you know, of all all the things.

9:12 You know, during that time she lost family members. I'm not going to go into any detail of that, but during those riots, you know, it was pretty hard on the on the family. like many other families had to go through that. it was So, they were basically refugees in India. So, they were like refugees in West Bengal. So, growing up, she was She lost her father at the age of 15. And she was the eldest one. So, she started working, you know, right from 16, at age of 16. of course, she won't get any government job or anything at the age of 16. So, she had to do a lot of other things like, for example, like teaching kids or, you know, sewing, you know, >> Yeah.

9:57 >> yeah, that was the two the main thing, you know, which basically she continued. As well as like continuing, you know, studying, you know, because she has to get through the the college degree to get, you know, the job for her dad because her dad used to basically my grandfather used to work for a postal office. He was a big officer in postal office. so after after her college, you know, she went through the struggle supporting all the all the, you know, siblings, you know, got got got into job and then in in the meantime my my dad was there also like, he was a boxer, basically. He was, you know, into boxing. He was, you know, playing national that time. And unfortunately, he had a very bad injury. So, he was out of the like, you know, boxing ring.

10:47 And that kind of devastated him. So, he like they both met and they fell fell fell in love each other. They were supporting each other in this, you know, tough time. My dad was being kind of like the guy who was like helping the family to stabilize because you can understand it's it's it's very vulnerable at that point of time. She's just 16, 17, 18. and rest of the kids like really like small kids, you know, all the all the siblings, you know. And we with that and and of course, my dad also got the emotional support, you know, from her, you know, so that she can he can go back to job. You know, leaves her left her, you know, left his you know, boxing and then went into, you know, job and education and whatnot. So, they were able to build a you know career. They both went into job.

11:37 And my sister was born my elder sister. unfortunately, in the fourth or fifth day I think there was an accident, you know, that she fell from the hands of the nurse or something, you know, and and she she she died basically in the hospital. So, that was their first child. So, that was a big shock like So, it was like one shock after the other. Like it was always that life is you know you know throwing challenges at her. and then next came my my second sister. you know, she she was born, you know, healthy. unfortunately, we we we were we or like we had a difference of 8 years, you know, between me and my sister. she was in eighth grade. She was identified or she was diagnosed with leukemia.

12:27 So, that was devastating for for my mom and dad. you know, they they were literally bankrupted cuz the the the expense was very high during that time even though the lot of lot of family members and relatives pitching the office people and you know, everybody tried to help. But still the expenses during that time chemo and everything was so high that you know, my dad has to like go through a lot of like you know, the the pension, you know, like a provident fund and all those things was just gone like, you know, so after retirement they didn't get a lot of money. But the most important thing is that she my my mother stayed strong through the entire period taking care of my sister. And then eventually, I was the only one. So, I I I mean, she was like she was to guard me like this, you know. I got into military like service like, you know, the exam. I cracked the exam and got through offer letter and what not, but she was like, "No, no, you're not going." So, she was always very protective of me, very close

13:27 To me because after my sister gone same with I was also very close to her. So, after my father's death you know, which unfortunately my father didn't see my career growth this much. she like it was just a beginning of my career when I just came out of the college and I was trying to do things, you know trying to get a job and you know, what not. So, she he he saw the initial struggle and then he passed away. After that it was just me and my mom, you know, pretty much. So, so that way I'm very fortunate that I got a lion's share of my mom. I would say that's I used to tell my mom that I'm lucky to get a lot of lot of time from you cuz, you know, there was nobody else to share basically.

14:15 And and that has built that relationship between me and my mom, you know, and I think, you know it's not like we didn't have our fights. We would always fight, you know, always I have different opinions and she has you know, she'll ask me to do things, you know, that that but it was it it was it was like I had to call her. I had to talk to her every day. I had to see her and and you know, that's that's another thing that whenever whenever I used to go this things was always in my mind to actually bring my family. I'm very family-oriented person. I I I hate being traveling alone. I hate staying somewhere alone. So, it was always for me my wife and my you know, kids and mom going to be there just like typical like typical Indian families, you know.

15:05 So yep, that that that is what it was so that the the relationship is is I would say beyond deep, you know, from from the from top level you would see, you know, you know, the the the maybe maybe you if you look at from outside, you may not see, you know, hey these guys do not talk that much or something, you know, so is there have a good relation? Yes. And a lot of things that my mom used to orate to me or like give me a message was through poetry through Rabindranath Tagore's poetry most of the time. So I would basically bring a problem to her, you know, my boss is doing this, you know, I'm going through this, you know, process. I don't know why it has to be me, you know, like blah blah blah, you know.

15:51 And she she will she will hear very clearly like okay, okay, okay. And she won't give me an advice. She would basically like orate some some poetry that has a message, you know, somewhere. And after after that like initially I was used to like get deep frustrated. What what like, you know, why you saying poetry, you know? But later on I started realizing when my maturity started growing, I realized, okay, there is a message down there. So that's how how it was our relationship. Like it was very artistic, you know, she she loves singing. She loves poetry particularly. She was amazing orator even at the age of she was hospitalized when she was in the last ages like 15 days, she was in hospital. And even the nurses told told me that every morning she would get up whatever the her health condition is, she would recite a poetry, you know, a poem. And she would even call them actually to for them to hear.

16:50 >> So that's how how much she was, you know, actively involved into art, you >> Yeah. [clears throat] No, thanks for sharing that. Sounds like I think you have such a lion's share of like, you know, the time and the bonding between mom. So let's I think you kind of touched about this. So where were you when you

17:08 First heard about her diagnosis? So so I I mean California here, you know, I'm I'm on, you know, H-1B as I mentioned, you know, I in my post on the LinkedIn also I did mention. It was by choice, but I mean, we when we when I came here, I was on L-1A. And, you know, I wasn't even aiming for staying over, so I didn't care about the the green card or at that point of time, you know, it was not on even though the company offered me. So, after that Satyam also offered like green card, they you know, I was also on an L-1, you know, A when I came to them second time. But, I I was not interested actually to be honest like, you know, I till 2014 when we decided. So, that's the time we basically started applying for green card, and we applied green card 2015 EB-2.

17:58 We are still waiting. So, anyway, that's the whole story out there, but that's a different story, but coming, you know, for you know, fast forward to here like we are in California, and my my mom and me we we share every day we had conversation, and I am deeply invested because of my mom into understanding medicine basically to understand you know, what medicine is given to her what, and I would do a little research from my side whatever I can to be, you know, well educated about the what the doctor is doing. Cuz I'm I'm it's not that I don't trust the doctor. It's just like I'm away from them away from my mom, and I I cannot like all the time speak to the doctor. So, I have to look at the prescription, you know, what they have wrote, and you know, understand you know, how her health is, and so, she said, "Okay, let me do one thing. I will immediately go to the hospital right now, and we will get get her, you know, like checked out." And she went into the hospital, they

18:59 Immediately admitted her. They the doctor said that it's not heart, heart is fine, it's the lungs because it looks like she has a very big infection lungs. Right lungs. particularly. So, I was under the same maybe because of that, you know, and you know, that that that's maybe you know, reoccurring or pneumonic. well, they they basically identified there's a lot of water, you know, they have to, you know, tap out the water. When they tap out the water, they found blood and, you know, one takes to the other, they diagnosed cancer, malignancy in those. And they couldn't confirm the stage, but yeah, they said it's not

19:39 Good, you know, probably it is better for you to come actually at that point of time. Are you or me or my wife, you And I start immediately, like I had applied for DS-160 before. Like anybody who in this immigration part knows DS-160, it's a standard thing, you know, to get a visa. Cuz I wanted to get a visa. I talked to my company. My company said, "Dude, like we can only run payroll for 2 months. That's what max we can do. We can run payroll for 2 months there. You can take a leave, you know, of 1 month, but after that, because of the legality, I don't think so we'll be able to keep you as an US employee. We will have to absorb you as an Indian employee. The the problem to that is your wife and kids going to lose the status.

20:25 So, which means that I you have to get back within 3 months. >> And sorry, this was in 2025, like maybe the time frame. >> Correct. Yes. Yeah. So, 2020 not 2025 actually, 2026 basically, January. >> January. Got it. Okay. >> So, that February basically, yeah. Around February and it went to April actually. So, she was still in the hospital and unfortunately in India, there's rules, right? You know, they would not allow phone with mom mom. So, I could not do video calls and other things, you know, which is generally I would do, but you know, people who are visiting, maybe they will bring the phone, you know, hide the phone and sometimes I'll speak over over like that. So, it was a complete disruption for me. It's just like feel like, you know, all of a sudden she's gone from my life. It's It's kind of like that, you know. It's all dark all of a sudden because I used to talk to her every day, twice a day.

21:25 And she's like like like you and me talking, right? I would put up a Google Meet and just open it up and and she would see me, you know, cooking food or doing something or doing my office work. That is how it was, basically. And now I'm like like next 10 days I can't even I I I'm not able to talk to her. It's It's something like what used was happening in COVID time. So, I told my wife I'll I'll you know, I'll keep trying, you know, getting a visa appointment, basically. So, before H4 H1B H4, if you are renewing it was just a drop box. It was pretty easy cuz you already have a work permit. There's no point for you to again go for an interview. That's that's what it is. But, the new administration everything changed, right? So, now you're back to you know, going for a full-fledged interview, which means that you even for a drop box you have to go for an interview, which means you have to go through the entire process.

22:15 I I every day I would get up and like, you know, you can only do it try three times that site to see if there is any thing available. Not a single interview available. And after like three or four days my wife was saying, "Hey, I think probably it's going to be a very big risk cuz if you go now, which means that we have to start packing cuz you are not coming back in 3 months cuz I don't I'm not sure whether you will get a, you know, visa visa appointment by that time." And I started calling the consulate generals and other other places. Of course, they are not going to reply. They'll give a very blunt reply of saying, you know, "Please try. Once you get an appointment then we can expedite your appointment." The main issue is I can't get an appointment in the first place itself.

23:02 How can I apply? You should actually give me an appointment you know, based on my emergency situation, you know. But anyway, that didn't happen. And eventually my wife said, let me take

23:13 The call cuz she has a small business here. She literally shut down the you know, store took a pretty big loss, financial loss, but she went back to India. And she's still now there. She's stuck there. She doesn't have a visa now to come here. She got the H4 approval and all those things, but no visa appointment. That's why she's not able to get a stamping done. So she took care of her. It was I was lucky at least she was there on a day when they were like they had a first chemo and you know, she was stabilizing. And you know, the doctor said this is a good time where you can take her back home. And she spoke to my mom. And she was telling me that for two for 1 and 1/2 hours she like hold her hand and spoke to her.

24:00 And my my mom keep telling her

24:03 Make sure Manu is not coming. My my nickname Manu, you know, like Manu is not coming because it's not about him, it's the kids. I don't want the kids to lose their you know, base cuz they they are already grown up there. They have friends, they have you know, they know everything in US, but they don't nothing in much in India. So it will be difficult. So she keep telling her, you know, do not do not let her let him come back come here, you know. And the next day she was released. When she went back to home to our home, she started having you know, vomiting and other things, you know. We initially we called the doctor. Doctor said it might be the after effect of you know, ants antacid or something. So she already had channels and everything, you So they they tried putting some medicines to basically calm her down.

24:51 And she finally slept. So before the sleeping, you know, I had like beard and everything. So I was talking to her. She recognized me over the phone. And she's kind of like with a hand she's kind of telling, you know, like stay back. You're not coming back. You're You're not coming here, you know. I'm going to be okay. I am fine. I am doing fine. It It like that I still I still find it very funny, you know, because I I did ask her, you know, how are you doing like how are you doing, Mom?

25:22 And she said, "I am good. I am well." I am happy. I am doing good, but little bit problem with the health. It's just a little bit problem with the health. It's just unbelievable, you know, spirit that she had got. Till that point she never told anybody that she will ever like there is a We all the time say, "I think my time is done. I think my" Particularly old age, she was 86. Till 86 she She was She's like She had a amazing, you know, spirit to live. She never said I'm going to die. On that very day, she [snorts] told my wife, "I don't think I'm going to leave. I think it is I'm you know, my end is here." So, anyway, I had my beard and everything, you know, because I was also not feeling very well about the whole situation.

26:12 I was not shaving and and my my mom knows that if I start stop shaving, that means I'm stop eating also. I have a bad habit of like I get sad and get into this corner and I stop eating for days. So, she was like very worried and I can see her face, you know. She's kind of trying to say, you know, eat, you know, shave, shave, you know, be clean. You need to go to office or, you know, shave, So, I said, "Okay." next day morning, you know, India morning and my evening, and my wife called and she said she Mom Momma has slept very well after the medicine, everything is fine. Nurse is down there taking care. Then I went into the bathroom. I started shaving because I wanted to tell live in shower and I told yeah, I I said, you know, maybe there's going to be a miracle.

27:02 You know, there is like, you know, last time when that was the situation they give up. Like I I took her back in the you know, from hospital to you know, home where there was so problem of getting oxygen, getting these, getting that. Still it she survived. So, maybe this is a magic will happen. So, I shaved and everything and all of a

27:22 Sudden the I heard like the nurse started like screaming, she's not responding, she's not responding. So, my wife quickly went down and that was that was it, man. So, I mean I mean that was the last breath she was like taking, you know. So, it was pretty hard to kind of see from a distance, you know. All I wanted to be is basically just beside you. I I I kind of getting to the point where we were also seeing she's she's struggling with the health and maybe it's just a matter of time. Maybe she's she's she's there almost and when she said that from her voice like, you know, I think it is my end. I I feel like yeah, I should opportunity should have been there for me to go. Yeah, to back to India. At least to be beside her.

28:14 Yeah, I do regret that part. But

28:20 I I don't know. I mean if I have done the right thing or not. I'm I'm sure like see we human beings we make mistakes, man. Like I won't say that I have not done done mistakes in my life. Maybe I should have been very decisive about what I want to do. Not keep everything in air. Like a lot of comments that people say, hey, this why he went for you know, when he went first time he didn't thought about the mom. How would somebody think, man? You're fresh out of college. You got a job, right? You have a future. You're thinking I'm going to do something. I'm going to be joining Google. I'm going to write the best program in the world, you know. You have that dream. And you know, your mom is young then. It's not like she's she's got old, right? She's like she's still young. She's she's physically able. She's like, you know, just retired, you know. And and she you know How would you like it's very difficult to like think like 20 years back after 20 years you will go like that's is going to happen. This is going to happen then.

29:15 I don't know. I mean, maybe some people can do. Maybe I couldn't do it. You know, that was a bad choice from my side. there is both side I could have done. I mean, I was like in half off. I didn't know, you know, if I would continue staying over there. And I don't know, you know, with our whether you know, I you know I could return. No, I I couldn't return and and and I would be honest like to you with you. >> For how many days have you tried for this visa appointment and how long was the mom and where you have to decide between you and your wife the plan forward? >> Yeah. We We were trying for like a week actually to get the appointment. and before like 160 Yeah, I would say yeah. Week not not week. I would say because I had the 160 applied even before that actually. Like you you know, DS-160 I already applied because I was planning to go to India. Haven't seen my mom for some time.

30:09 So that was in January like you know, where kind of like I I I I I filed actually. And then after that I was following up, you know, that the second you know, where you basically wait for the interview. Yeah, I would say like 2 weeks actively I tried. And then finally we kind of decided that you know, she's going to go.

30:29 >> And what was your discussion with your wife at that moment? You know, where >> It's It was hard, man. I I'll tell you it is hard on her. Why I'll tell you. She She was a entrepreneur mindset right from day one. She joined first year college has no intention of doing college. She from the first year college she built up company there called Systek. And that was like she was very successful 12 12 employees developers. She was able to get projects from outside. All of that when she was like studying in college. After that, you know, she also has a career in, you know, acting. And she left all of that because I moved here. And she had to give up all the careers and she moved here.

31:16 Again, she rebuilt a business here called Nims Design, you know, like and then she opened two stores basically. One store in Bay Area and the one in Folsom. She had to close down. That was the conversation during that conversation it was like you know she so she's like my childhood And so we we so basically after my sister's death basically, you know, my she was literally like adopted kind of like in my home. Like her like my mom and dad was like you know, that's our daughter. So not a typical bahu, you know, saas relationship. It was more like she was I would say she was actually more if my mom needed something it was always her.

32:10 And you know, with me it was always discussion about politics, discussion about art, discussion about these other things, you know, every other thing she will discuss with me, but the actual needs and actually every day it was my wife who would actually always be there, you know. And you know, one thing that she said that during her mother's death she could not go. That was during the COVID time. Her mom died, you know, my mom was able to survive, but you know, she she was she didn't survive, you know, not not because of the COVID, but other, you know, medical condition. And I was there taking care of her >> the time during time I was there, you her mom, you know. So, she said that see, it's not between your mom or our mom. Both our moms are our moms. So, you you you put in your like duty during, you know, when you took that chance, you know.

33:02 And maybe this is my time to take a chance. I know I'm going to lose the like the the shop cuz I I'm not sure you can legally I cannot run the business cuz I'm in H-1B. So, somebody has to be there, and it's very difficult to like run it, you know, remotely. You know how it is like labor is a biggest problem here in US. And it was not possible for us. So, she has to shut down. That was a very very big bummer cuz both investment-wise she spent quite a lot of money to, you know, renovate the, you know, inside the, you know, the store and everything. Yeah, and then, you know, you have security deposit, other things, right? You're breaking the contract. So, that's a big loss. So, that went as a business loss for her. And of course, because she's in currently in India, well, I would say she started thinking in a different way. Now she's like saying, "Hey, let me build the business in India." And and, you know, and then I basically spread out to US. So, she's not stopping

34:03 The business, you know, she's basically now trying to rearrange it, you know, make make it in India, even though it was basically an Indian-based product. So, now she's saying, "Okay, let me sell it first in India, and then also I have US customers and UK customers and whatnot." And, you know, things are different now in India compared to when we left. So, much more easier to do business. that's what I that's what I heard, you know, she was also telling a lot of things that made things easier, you know, of course every day newer governments are trying to make things, you know, easier for us. >> So, I think, you know, she's taking the advantage of that the the the good things that are happening in India and and set up something and at the same time this time I think we kind of like trying to ground ourselves in India.

34:55 Cuz I think at some point of time once the kids flies out you know, like completely out of our home and they find their own you know, way of life or whatever they want to do. I think we want to be go back back to India basically. That's that's what the that's what the the final goal is. Now now we are very clear like what we want to do.

35:17 >> Why is it so? Like why is it so clear? Like I think it was there was a plan but life goes on. Like why is it so clear that you want to build it in India after the kids are out at college? >> Yeah, it's a very good question actually. It's not me actually. There is a lot of other people also went through the similar situation and I was talking to them actually. See, till the age of 30 35 you have a lot of energy, you are fit, you are doing things, you know, you are on your own, you know, you can you want to drive by yourself. After you cross 50 men you want a driver. You want somebody to do give you the chai. Like, you know, bring the chai. I'm not saying the slavery but it's a ecosystem that we have got in India. It's a beautiful ecosystem where we spend the money on you know, labor.

36:02 We get cheap labor but at the same time we are also providing a market. You know, where they are able to get the money, you know, our it it's sparkle it, right? here after like one of the things is that I I I I want brand like this like like not everybody is like that but it's little people wants to be like left alone. Like I want to have space between me and my neighbors. In India, it is kind of different. You have a problem of privacy. But then you also have a I have a situation where if you if you are like, you know, like my mom was in a hospital, I have my friends and their friends and my, you know, you know, para people, like para we call it para, like community people, because we have our house is like 100 years old, so my grandfather has lived there, so everybody knows us. They were all like, I didn't even have to do anything. They were like all over. So, my wife was saying the same thing that you know, there's like so much of community feeling there.

37:04 That is missing here for some reason, I think, you know. To be honest, if you ask me, luckily I know my neighbor's name. There's a lot of friends friends here who don't know their like neighbor's name, actually. And it is not about being desi or not desi. It is It is across, like it's just that is how it is. But I think the culture that we grown up with like, you know, puja, the kite flying, you know, pataka banana, like during the, you know, during the Kali Puja, all those things I have missed missed a lot, man. And I think at some point of time I want to go back to my roots. That's one thing. The second thing is that I have seen old age here where people are carrying oxygen cylinders and they have to drive their own car. They have to buy their own groceries.

37:55 I think that's not that I you know, I want to live a life like that, you know, I I I want to be within people, within a community, getting support from the community, because at that point of time I'm losing my health. >> And I know I want to understand this a little bit. Like how old are the kids right now? Because I think again the key thing is the kids have the friendship, they're building the life there. Yeah. And how are you thinking about like when you're spending time in India and kids here, like you know, being in touch, traveling, like what are your thoughts? I mean, I understand the reasons to go back, but again, there's also another reason like you have built a life in US, you know, for their sake. So, how how how you and your wife thought through that?

38:44 So, my my elder one is, you know, freshman in college. This is going to be the second year, like second year for starting college. She wants to do She initially wanted to do marine biology. and that's what she got into, but now she's trying to get into like research, medical research. So, she wants to do MD and then go into research. My younger one is in 10th 11th grade. And she's very focused on you know, she's she's very focused kid, basically. and she wants to basically get into like virology. I'm not sure about my younger one, but my older one hasn't, you know, she believes this is this is her home.

39:30 But she also believe that India is her Now, over time, I've I'm seeing that she is getting more motivated with the culture. She's she's looking at like she still listens to rap, but she now listens to Hindi rap. She's listening to like other language rap, like, you know, there's a lot of I'm from you know, there's a lot lot of northeast, you know, you know, influence in Bengal, you know, from Sikkim because they're close proximity. So, rock band and other things, you know, are are really popular there. So, she is getting into those kind of music. I I can hear she she loves to watch now Bollywood movies. She is watching Durundhar 2, Durundhar 1, and like I'm just amazed, you know.

40:16 And she's now started Hindi. She's speaking with me in Bengali. I did not like you know, we always speak with her in Bengali, but now she's trying to like all the time have conversation with me in Bengali. So I'm seeing a very stark change in that. Maybe she's also trying to find her roots. And I did ask her once, "What is your plan?" So she's she was telling, "See, there's it's a huge big country. They always need doctors. They always need good doctors, you know, and you know, if I am doctor, then there is no boundary for me. I can be anywhere and any place, basically. So I have a feeling that maybe she is on a move like at some point of time. I don't know where she will end up in, but I don't think so she will be in US.

41:01 So that's one thing. Second, my younger daughter, you know, always, you know, follow my elder. They she's like, you know, always try to follow as close as possible. So eventually at one point of time I'm thinking, you know, she's also going to be like, you know, going out of US. I don't know, you know, at one point of time she was talking about going to Australia, you know, because it has a lot of coast and marine biology. So she does scuba diving a lot. Like she has, you know, professional scuba diving, you certifications. So she she said that's a good place to do scuba diving and all those things, you know, so So I said, "Yeah, just follow your passion, you know." And to be honest like my mom, my dad always encouraged me to leave the house.

41:50 And they used to tell me one thing, "If you live in the live here, it's not like it's bad. It's you're going to be missing out on your experience in your life. So you have to get out of your like well, and you have to go because otherwise, you know, you will become the toad of the like well, basically. And that would be your life. And I don't want that to happen. You can always come back. Remember, this is your country. You can always come back, but go out and have the experience. So, I also encourage them like for them, this is the country. So, I'm encouraging them go out. Like there is Europe, there is other places. The world is your man. Like you got you got to go out and and and experience. And then you can always come back. Like like in our age, like me and my wife kind of deciding that we'll slowly wrap up and we just go back, you We're just finding the right way to make it make that exit, you know.

42:46 >> And and but now we are we know we will do that. That's exactly what we want to do. >> Got it. I think you mentioned that your wife

42:55 Is still in India, right? After the >> So, maybe you can talk about it. As she's still struggling to get a visa appointment. I know a lot of families are in the situation. So, you are there by yourself with kids taking care of them while your wife is there. >> So, maybe you can talk about like what are the some of the things logistics, what's going on, and what happened, yeah. Any >> Yeah. Like logistic logistic wise, you know, as like all men who have visited US or who has traveled to visit like either a student or a or job, we all know that you have to start cooking. You have to daily chores you have to know. So, that is not that much of a problem for me. I can still manage. I can, you know, cook. So, it's not Of course, some days you you don't want to, you know, of course there are other you know, Indian stores and other things are there. You can always buy and make it, man.

43:48 There's a huge emotional you know, stretch that I I or or pain I would say, you know, that I can feel with my wife and one way she's very very happy that she was able to be there with my mom at least for last two days. saw her life, you know, being there with but at the same time she's now facing the blunt that, you know, she's away from the kids. And there is no return ticket right now. For her it is written. You know, cuz this is our home, right? The kids are here. That's what she was the other day she was saying, "I don't care about country. I don't care about Wherever my kids are, it's my home." And right now I'm away from home. So, with that single word sentence, I think I understood what she's like what she's going through.

44:38 >> I didn't want to do touch that more cuz I know this will blast, you know. I just kept it like that. So, I I try and do not talk about that cuz I I know she's going to break down, you know. And she's a very strong woman trying to go through that. But at the same time, like any other Indian mom and other moms, like non-Indian moms, they all love their kids. Like and I know how much she's missing her kids, you know, more than me. In being dad, I think it is kind of like kind of It's a it's a it's a thing that you know that you're dad you're going to be traveling cuz you have to go for work. You have to go to You're going to be miss- missing the kids. So, I think mentally we kind of prepared, but for her it was she was not mentally prepared for this cuz she was definitely not mentally prepared to leave her kids here and and she being in India, you >> And [snorts] this is all because of not able to get a visa appointment to get the stamping and all that stuff. It's I can only say six, seven months. Still in So, she has traveled before. No problem

45:40 At all. She has traveled before the H-4 paper. She just submitted like Dropbox, stamp, came back here. No problem. Like there was not much of a difference between whether you have a green card or a visa. >> Other than there are some certain facilities, certain other things like, you know, as long as you have a, you know, valid visa and we have valid visa after this many numbers you have even getting these approvals like it's just a you know it's just just a red tape this is just a stamp basically. So I don't know. I mean that's what I feel like you know. >> I know it's very hard for a lot of families who are in a similar situation right for whatever reason they were just visiting or some emergency and then subject emotionally it's just going to be hard.

46:25 >> Yeah yeah. I I you know I know this is going to go very bad against me cuz I'm on H-1 visa and I'm criticizing the country where the H-1 visa is processed but I it is unbelievable that a first world country do not have a facility or any any program for a emergency situation like this. I I cannot believe every country will have some kind of exception process How can you not have an exception process? And the exception process they also have an exception process which says you have to first get an interview. That's the main problem. There is no interview what next like there's people who are waiting for like more than a year. >> So there's no interview in the very first place. So if I get an interview I won't I won't need that exception process. >> I need the exception process because there is no dates.

47:14 >> So it's a it's a things have changed

47:17 Totally man like I would definitely say things are very difficult and as I mentioned in my note there what 20 years back what India was not India is today like that. India was not that time the leading business place where people will come and invest and something. We might have political differences I may not you know I mean that's that's not this I'm not going to go into politics part of it but things have changed evolved people exposures have increased people understand the you know importance of building products not just services you know because we are very good in services. You know, it service sucks in US. Like if you go to a big store or a restaurant or whatever it is, you know, or a hotel or somewhere, you immediately can notice it like the the service that you get in India.

48:09 So, we are very good with services, but we got to get good with products. And I think there are a lot of good products like Paytm and other companies that are coming up, right? Look at that. We are really right now rule the we are literally ahead of you know, UPI. UPI is one of the like a most successful thing that India can ever have produced, you know. Currently, that model is being being rolled out in other countries. So, that that is a beautiful thing, you know. So, if a country like this, UPI can be built, then other things are kind of also be built. I I I I couldn't when I growing up, I could only think about ISRO when it comes to rocket. I I could never think that somebody in your backyard can be you know, rocket. And that's exactly what is happening in in India now. You know, there are companies, there are engineers like kids that are you know, coming out of fresh engineering college and they are having their dream and they can pursue that dream there.

49:04 During my time, I don't know. That's the reason why we had so much of brain drain drain, man. Simply, people wanted to do something, but it wasn't there. Facility wasn't there. Money wasn't there. Appreciation wasn't there. Market wasn't So, things are changing. >> I know it's been almost close to 20 years. You have seen like the development or the changes in US and in

49:26 India. What would you say for people who are thinking about moving abroad? >> Yeah. Now, I I I would always suggest people to not move abroad, but visit abroad. You have to get out of your hometown. That is mandatory because you need that experience. Whether you do it during your masters or PhD or you're doing it during your first job, but before you make that move like as you said move, you have to be absolutely sure about it. In my case, that I wasn't sure, you know, I was like always in that, you know, either here or there. If you If you make a decision earlier in life, it will be much more better cuz you can, you know, whether you do it in India or outside India, you can do it better.

50:14 >> Is there anything that you wish you have you could have you had done differently looking back? Yeah, I I I think if I have to repeat this, I would have like mid mid-career around 30 by the time I hit the 30, I would basically wrap up here. I would have go back on back. And I would not let my wife sell her business, you know, that time cuz she she started she she was in first grade when she started this her business. So, that was like very very It's It's like she lost another child. It's like a child, you know, like for her cuz a lot of emotion into that when she closed that business and, you know, sold it and, you know, came here.

51:07 It was it was not good. I I I would you know, definitely not like not let that happen, actually. that is one thing I would have definitely done. [clears throat] And to be honest, one day she was saying that just imagine it was my first year, second year, I had 15 people as an employee working for me. That means my I had that many number of projects coming in. I said, "Yeah, absolutely, I know cuz I was involved also." Just imagine what would have it happened if I if would have continued till now. >> Now. >> So, I would have been able to give jobs to so many people. Like, being able to generate money for like this many families.

51:54 Yeah, which is absolutely true. I think that's a tremendous loss, man. That's a That's a loss. I I I I I'm not sure whether my wife is a entrepreneur like Bill you know, Ambani or something. I'm not saying. But, definitely she had a She never wanted to work for anybody. She never did. And it's just my passion to work for an American company thinking that I will get the best of the work and be able to make a difference in life where I actually moved away from my wife and not support my wife there. But, she would have actually made a difference in in our community. I now looking back, I think, you know, her commitment would have been actually way more bigger than what I could have made a change. Cuz end of the day, man, like we all wanted to do good things for others, right? Apart from that, you you need the You always like to have a pat on the back. Hey, dude, like you did amazing things. Everybody wants to learn.

52:49 Everybody wants to hear that, right? As As technical people, we even more, like, you know. So, yeah. So, that is something that I think, you know, I would I would have

52:59 Changed. >> So, thank you very much, Gautam, for taking the time and being very candid and you know, sharing this personal story. I mean, it's not easy, but really appreciate you taking the time and walking us through it. I know it's a tough one. There is no right or wrong answers, and it's just like how the cards play out, but you know, wish you all the best and thanks again for being with us today. >> Thank you, man. And I just want to appreciate your your effort, also. You have also done This is this platform that you created. not everybody is doing that, but I think you you you know, touched the right nerve. There's a lot of lot of discussion that needs to happen, you know, around this like, you know, and I'm I'm glad that you created that platform and and doing this. Thank you for reaching out and thank you for all the nice and supporting word, man.

53:54 Appreciate. >> Yeah, thanks. >> Thank you. >> [music]