Watch: Stuck Between US and India? Watch What They Did After 11 Years in US

3:21 The priority at a young age as a couple as well. So those were the three things. And then I would I would add to this that he also wanted to make sure that what he had seen outside, he wanted his family, his parents, me, everyone to see that. And you know, go around in the US. So that was the idea of going to US. Got it. Cool. So when did you move to UK? So in UK we were in 2013. Okay. 2013 and US we moved in 2014. Yes. And did you have the H1 by the time or like you applied for H1 after the move to UK? So I had an H1. I think my H1 was approved 2010 or 11. Oh, okay. And having an H1 the services companies won't let you sit on it, right? That you have to they have spent so they've spent on you and they want you to go to US. So I knew somewhere, you know, I'll land in US having H1 approved.

4:22 But UK was more like you know, US is now guaranteed, let's try whatever we can. So that's what happened. We were in London for a short time. but every we were blessed like went around UK as well and then we landed in US. Got it. Understood. So assuming it's with the same employer and it's an internal kind of a transfer like you know for a project or something in US. that's it. Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. So

4:47 How was life in US since 2014 and yeah? You want to go first? Yeah, it was good. I mean it was a new place. initially the first week like we landed in Wisconsin, so it was for me it was the first time visiting outside India. And I personally felt that oh my god, we don't have people here. how are we going to manage? I mean just a week into landing into US and then it was snow all out there. Bad experiences of walking down in snowfall to a Walmart nearby. so yes, it was a little bit a little bit difficult, but then eventually when we met people and we settled in a place, we took a house on rent and everything. So then it worked out well, yes. Got it.

5:32 I'll just add to it and by the way like she she you know, she we we went to Thailand for our honeymoon. Then we were in London. So like Thailand like first time when we saw Thailand, she was like, this doesn't look like India is better. London as well like she was not willing to stay. Yeah, that's what I was like, okay, this looks more like Bombay. Yeah. But when we landed in on Chicago and from Chicago we took a cab to Wisconsin and then that's where you know, she was like, yeah, wow, this is the western lifestyle or you know, good infrastructure and everything. but I'll put it this way. we were blessed in US all our we we were in US for almost 11 years. God has been very kind to us. you know, all the goals that we had.

6:20 So the priorities kept on changing over 11 years, right? So initially it was like me and her and see the world as a couple and you know, enjoy, go out have experiences and then you know, have parents come over, take them around, see make them see kind of thing. So those were the initial formative years, I think 5 to 6 years in US. And once we had kids, obviously the life changed. we were in Dallas, so we moved from Milwaukee to Chicago. In the last 5 years we were 5 and 1/2 years we were in Dallas. Okay. So I would say life has been very good. We were blessed. a lot of good friends. no complaints at all. I think it's a great country. US is a great great country. no instances of racism or anything at all. people were very warm, our neighbors, everything. so yeah, I think it's the life has been very good. no negatives I would say.

7:21 And it's just that priorities keep on changing as you age, right? So that was a our journey has been in US for 11 years. No, thanks a lot for that. I'm I'm I'm sure I think you know, going to Wisconsin like Milwaukee so cold and then experiencing that and hopefully like in Dallas it would have been nice. So let's I think understand. So sounds

7:41 Like I think the life has been great. you know, great you know, experience living in US. So what changed? I know you kind of keep touching about these priorities like in 11 years. So what about those priorities and also what made you to think about moving to India when the life has been going solid, everything is good? Certainly. So first like 2 and 1/2 years we were in Milwaukee. and like as I said we were going around, right? So and enjoying life like white Christmas and all the other things that you do. then you know, I I switched jobs like you know, I I from Wipro Technologies I joined Sears Holdings in Chicago as a full-time and I I went into product management. That that was my I would say full-time start of product management. I was always doing consulting in product management. but the change in priorities were I would say after about 4 years, right? Of going in Milwaukee and Chicago. that was a

8:43 Time where we were like, yeah, we now have seen everything, most of the things and you know, we have done what we wanted to do. Now what? Now I now what what is the next step? And we never went with a view of settling down in US. That was never the goal. Like we were like, yeah, let's go, let's take play by the year. 4 years went by. then you know, kids happened. the elder one was born in Chicago. And after kids, so that time you know, I was almost let's say 6 and 1/2 years in US. And then with kid we were like, yeah, by the time he grows up and COVID hit back then in 2019. so we were like anyways you know, not the right time right now anyways to go back to India.

9:31 So we were more like once the kid grows of a certain age, so it was 7 and 8 years went by then. And parents used to come our parents used to live with us. every 6 months they were there. So it's not the case that we missed parents particularly. even my other relatives came. we had relatives in US as well, cousins and everything. but priorities changed in the in the standpoint from being a couple, being materialistic, going around to having a family, like what next in life kind of thing, having a family. And after that, at some point in time, and then I would also say we were like, let's finish 10 years for SSN benefits and other stuff, right? So, we were like, anyways there. And lastly, like so after 7 or 8 years in US, we were like now let's make a move back to India. Now it's the time and everything.

10:29 The only one thing that we had not done was having a house. And we were like, you know, I, you know, given the way things are placed in US, so we are like we'll have to end up living in an apartment in in India once we go back. So, let's experience having a house and a backyard. So, we did that. And we had a house for the last almost 3 and 1/2 years. but then after that house part of it, right? So, we were like all the materialistic things were it's it's ticked. and then I was like, yeah, well, 10 years is done, SSN part is done, 140 is done, and we had a second kid by then. so that's where we started planning, thinking seriously about moving back. aging parents were certainly the part of the priority. The primary part of the priority were aging parents. And my dad had a had to undergo an open heart surgery.

11:23 You know, back in 2023, 2023. And and although we had we are in Ahmedabad by the way over here, and we had family and everything, my brother and everything to take care of mom and dad. but that kind of put steam on the pedal that, you know, it's like now it's about time that we start thinking seriously. So, to change in priorities I would say a lot of materialism initially as a couple, then kind of financials in terms of let's say let's get 10 year done and earn some more money kind of thing. And then eventually coming to a point that parents are aging and you know, having seen our friends who had a little older kids and everything, we were like there's this window of opportunity when kids are young, right?

12:18 Once that passes, it becomes even more difficult. So, we were like it's it's like now or never. so that's what was the kind of a call to action that we have to pull the trigger. We can't be in analysis paralysis anymore. Got it. And I think to add to this our kids, like the elder one was already 5 and 1/2 6 by then. 5 and 5 5 5 and 1/2. So, we were like, okay, before he goes to even kindergarten over there, let's make the move so that it's easier for us to adapt to the environment for him as well, for us as well. Because once he starts going to the school over there, it becomes difficult. Yeah. So, thanks a lot for sharing that. sounds like I think you always had this move back to India in the back of the mind, right? so that's why you never like wanted to have like a tangible like assets in US, like you know, the house, whatever it could be. It's always in the back of the mind. What is that pull?

13:14 Like is it just like you visited US just to experience the culture, just to experience like this you know, environment? What is that like if why you always had that in the back of the mind about India? >> So, I'll put it this way. If I have to be if at all I'm self-aware by any chance, right? Then I would say that I'm very emotional and socially attached to the family and value family and other systems over materialism. Right? So, as I said, post my MBA, most of my batchmates I I completed in Dubai. And most of my batchmates were placed in Singapore, East Asia, and that region or Dubai or Middle East region or even in US as well.

14:04 But that time I had an option to take up a job and be abroad, you know, maybe in Singapore. But I I declined that, right? I was like, I want to be in India kind of thing. Yeah. so to answering your question, I think the way life happened is I have been out of home since 18. you know, since engineering, right? So, living doing my engineering, living in hostels and everything. And I kind of sensed you know, parents journey, right? Like our Indian parents, they they will they will never even utter a word, they'll make you start make you thinking. And they were like even with this move as well, our parents were like, why are you moving? Like we we we are all settled. Why do you want to do that? You have a good job. I used to work in AT&T, a fortune company out there. why do you want to make a move? And those kind of things. But within you know, after I moved out of the home in 18, and once I came back to

15:04 India, I was 42 by then. So, these years, right? parents went through different emotions in terms of you know, minor surgeries here and there, some hospitalizations, not critical, but some hospitalizations. And that kind of always were hitting me every other time. Like what's the use of this when I'm never around, right? Like what is the use of all this whatever we call it. And I was like you know, that was not fulfillment was not there, you know, so fulfillment was not there. And I think so that was the primary experiences that I went through. so parents were one of the primary reasons. Not being around parents, I would say. And the other thing were like, you know, yeah, parents are coming to US every 6 months, but since how long they'll come? At some point in time because of age and they won't be able to come.

15:58 Also extended family in terms of my brother and my bhabhi out here, and you know, my you know, in-laws out here. I was like, if kids won't gel, proximity matters at the end of the day. you know, at the end of the day proximity matters. Phone conversations are phone conversations, but if you don't spend time, that bonding doesn't happen the way you know, society is emerging. So, I was like I wanted kids to get exposed to the larger extended family. Like you know, it's cousins and in-laws and everything. And that was kind of other trigger to me, the kind of environment I wanted to give to the kids. because one of the things I observed with our kids out there, like you know, [clears throat] all good, but somewhere I I felt that it's kids are better off socially.

16:53 Obviously depends on kids to kids. Because it's there's more density out here in India, right? And especially when you when you live in an apartment, there's more mingling and stuff like that. so I thought kids will be better off you know, here. in US as well, we had very good friends, like family. We miss them right now as well. And but it's like, you know, on a daily basis that interaction doesn't happen. So, like if you have to go to a party, then you call a friend. >> You always have to plan ahead. >> You have to plan ahead and things like that, right? Here we have less that with our neighbors and everything. Like kids are hardly to be seen in our house. They're always in someone else's house. >> You just walk down and you'll find lots of people. If not this, then the other one. Yes. And it's it's more like how we grew up, right? Like we grew up with with with the friends and everything.

17:43 And and I see that change in kids. They they I prefer to analyze their daily happiness index, right? They they are happiest. Like you know, they they are happiest when they go down and have an unstructured play with the kids with with their gang. so I think that's that's one of the best which is playing along well as well. Got it. Yeah. Perfectly makes sense. So, let's

18:07 Talk about the planning, right? so when did you start planning? I think you made the decision I think 2023 is like you know, where you seriously considered and that kind of accelerated the you know, the move. So, how long you plan? And why exactly 2025? Was there like you know, some timing that you know, in the back of the mind? Yeah, so if you can talk about that, that would be certainly. So, it's more like and I would share this with quite a few friends are teasing, right? As as it would be the case, most of the people in their 40s will be have somewhere or other will have this on back of their minds. and I I think for the my experience I would say, right? The way I see it is out of every 10 people, I think one or two have made a decision that US is the place, right?

18:57 Which is great. Which is kudos to that because they have clarity of mind. it's more like you know, let's say they are self-aware. This is what it is. Yes. then maybe one or two or a few odd like us, we would have two or three would have make in a decision to take the plunge that this is our calling. Which is also great, clarity of mind. I think 60 to 70% of the people are in this dilemma, right? Like what do we do? Like I think that's the worst state to be in. Because like you know, you're not living in the moment. Like your your your heart is out here, you're living there. You're always in double mind. I don't think so that's a good state to be in. so coming back, right? So, for the planning, at least for the I would say planning part of it, I would say 2 years 2 years 1 and 1/2 to 2 years went into it. and I would say I would strongly suggest anyone making a move taking the plunge right planning is very

19:58 Very important. And the stages of learning if I had to classify my journey my experience of planning is First thing as they as we call it in India under the hours. So if if you can learn to your your heart is going to say no you'll get into every kind of emotional psychological stuff like this and that this and that you know, it's a kind of thing. So I think getting into the details the journey starts First the first step of planning is getting your head clear. Forget about Excel sheet expenses pooling this that nothing I think first thing is I think I would advise anyone To take some down time think through it have your head around what do you want out of life you know things start later.

20:46 Right so that's the first step and once you somewhere you think your your soul or you have you think that this is the right move thing to do for me somewhere that's where the other planning for other material things start. Right once you're made a decision that yeah this is my calling this is what matters to me That I'll not have beer pressure when my friends go on a cruise as an example versus me watching a final cricket match World Cup sitting next to my dad and with family and shouting you know kind of thing. Those are the trade-offs you start to make in your mind that what matters to you at the end of the day so that would be the first stage introspection and you know clearing your head. The second stage would be the material planning right where you start You know kind of talking to peer groups so in my case the way it happened is like most of my

21:46 Friends were not in playing to move our circle which is big you know and so that's where I kind of you know found myself I wanted to have that social circle. I was thinking that am I going in the the opposite current the current is flowing in the other direction and am I swimming upstream kind of thing. I mean kudos to you Avinash for DC return somehow I I chance upon DC returns I did not know that and that's what helped a lot in terms of Social group the peer validations that it's like and there are breakout groups like Ahmedabad had its own breakout groups and Hyderabad and all that. And that's where and I started talking to people who were ahead in the journey who had made the move over phones seen podcast like ours and everything.

22:38 That gave us a lot of confidence that yeah it's not one off like then you don't think that you're the only one going upstream there are so many others in the with with with you it's just a question of priority. So I think second stage would be to create that peer circle get into get get into the framework or ecosystem For your final destination where you want to go you consume that contact you talk to those people you build friends you learn from that kind of thing that would be the second stage. Then it would be you know the financial planning and everything and I think financial planning is very very important. In our case we were like I had put down everything on Excel sheet you know newspapers Cost of gas pipelines everything every detail so I precisely knew financially this is going to be our expense and I had a number in mind like this is the if I get a Job I worked in an IT again in Ahmedabad

23:39 And if I get to get a job of this paying this much money you know we'll sail through it kind of thing so I think that third stage would be the financial planning at a detail minute level. The other thing that goes with the planning is the place you're going to be choice of city and in our case I was like if I I don't get to live in Ahmedabad Then living in Bangalore or let's say Chennai or Hyderabad any other IT hub is equally good or equally bad for me. Yeah Bangalore or Hyderabad equally good or equally bad for me so I was very clear that we need to be around parents somewhere be around parents. So choice of city again you know everything will convert at some point in time finances where you can find a job what kind of job expenses Then the kids education as well what kind of schools did we need to go so On that front of planning I think

24:42 I had at least 3 months of Physically going around you know and and looking at the places to live like once we have selected Ahmedabad then where in Ahmedabad which which is the locality you want to settle I think and this is very very important you know it's like a very important because change management has to reduce. Right from coming from there to here and So it's like where you're going to find like-minded people so if you belong to that If you're looking for professionals or people who would Talk the same language as yours Then if you better know where Where your Abode is going to be so that's the third part of it and the schooling part of it as well what kind of schools in these days a lot of IB and Cambridge boards are Quite popular in India and in Ahmedabad as well so those kind of things. So I would say planning journey first stage is self-introspection

25:42 Coming to a point like what do you want to do that's the first decision-making point. Either way there's right there are no right or wrong decisions then second stage is Kind of you know Yeah you know going around and the physical part of it the expenses finances schooling all those part of it. And in between there would be a bridge of making social circles And talking being in the same talking to the same people who talk the same language. And then after that I think the checkpoint would be once you all your set like planning is done right and after planning there comes a point when is the right time to pull the trigger so in our case I would say there was almost 1 and 1/2 years of planning took 1 and 1/2 to 2 years including all the stages And then I was just waiting for find a job and I was like by God's grace I found a job With with the finance and everything I was eyeing for and the moment we found the job we pulled the

26:43 Trigger there and kind of you know Came back here. We also wanted to make sure that before the kids start their schooling we want them to be wanted them to start from a fresh year rather than you know joining between because again that becomes difficult for the kid to just you know merge in and then get new friends who have already made groups so that way also we started planning in a way that you know by the end of March or April or May and we should be in India. So that when the when the school starts from June it's easier for the kids to settle. Yeah. Thanks a lot for such a detailed answer I mean I can see the product manager in you like kind of explaining the different phases and how but you know very thorough in terms of and I think I echo with you lot of people feel that initially the thought of moving back to India am I the lone person here who is doing it until they realize like you know being in part of those environments or circles that it is not so minority I

27:45 Mean there are people who are moving yes it's it's few number of people but it's still not like You are the only one there are other people who are who have done this who are doing it and I think just being in that circle can help you with the the thought process and you know making some proper planning also. So just to add to it Avinash like we were positively surprised like we had this one thing like you know is is Ahmedabad going to have the like-minded are we going to find people like-minded people in Ahmedabad Bangalore and Chennai we knew like or Hyderabad any metro right but Ahmedabad is still let's say it's it's growing so you were like we had this anxiousness in mind like are we going to have like-minded people and Ahmedabad has positively surprised us I would say and especially the place where we live in Ahmedabad At least in our apartment complex we we bumped into at least six to seven families who have moved from US voluntarily in last 6 months. From Canada or from anywhere else. Yes so at least there are so many people moving

28:46 Back so that was a pleasant surprise. Even for me right I mean I'm pleasantly surprised you know any of these communities that you go Lots of people lot of people who voluntarily made a decision to move back and you realize it like after the move right you know before the move like when you're making the decision you are like not so sure but again it's a surprise to me just to see like the number of people. Yeah. So let's talk about I think on a career

29:12 Side I think maybe before jumping on that I think you mentioned about doing all the financial planning put everything so sounds like I think you have done is there some number that you have in mind in terms of okay this is the cost of living that it's going to be in Ahmedabad and how did you go about it and then also anything you have done in terms of the assets that you have whether it's 401k the accounts anything that you can talk about. Certainly so all our US so our kids are US citizens we have both are born in US and we are going to keep them as US citizens till the time and and we don't know right but they are too young to say that if whether they'll go back or not or study here. So but right now that we have made a conscious call that all our US assets we want to park in US. We don't want to bring any of those in India. I have 401K, a few CDs and a house. We have given our house on rent and we have friends by God's grace who can take care of other other things especially the house part of it right? So

30:13 So that part like we are very clear that US all the assets we don't want to touch and hopefully they'll only grow over a period of time and will help kids if the kids have to go away. That is one. Coming to India part of it I think I should I would add that I always like I'll take myself 10 years back whenever I went to US. I had a number in mind like you know of passive income. Like what is the right time to come back to India? And I was like once we hit that number that's like kind of right time to move back to India. Reason being like you you need to ensure the lifestyle right? When you move back to India your lifestyle should not get impacted in whatever form.

31:02 So I've been working towards that in terms of properties out here in India. Those are rental properties which are giving passive income and a few other investments here and there. And we we hit that milestone. That was also one of the very important factors in this decision making financially that now that we have hit that passive income goal and looking at the worst case scenario like say we we would we would feel through kind of thing right? So that that enabled us in in making a decision as well. Yeah, so I would strongly advise people to work on the either way to work on the passive income part of it right? So that that's always the case which will help you when you have to make this transformative decisions in life if you have those kind of revenue streams coming in. That makes the job a lot easier.

31:59 Yeah. Yeah, completely yes. Did I does that answer the question? Yes, I think it answers I mean but I think it just to continue on that is there a range of cost of living cost that you have in mind especially for people who are considering to move to Ahmedabad right? You know for certain lifestyle just any range that you can give I think that would be helpful. Certainly. So in the range I would say the two factors matter a lot and that is goes without saying. One is a mortgage right? So it's like if you're going to move back and have a house then house or apartment whatever that be your loans if you're going to take that part of it right? That could be a significant part of your outflow. That is one and the schooling that you choose for kids because in India as as I see in Ahmedabad the schooling for good schools will range from let's say all the way to 1.2 lakhs all the way up to four four lakhs three and a half to four lakhs the IB and Cambridge schools. Seven even.

32:53 Even seven but like on the top very top yeah tier right? So I would say considering those two assuming that you someone the cost of monthly expense outflow in Ahmedabad for a a range could be anywhere between one to I would say 1.5-ish or even 1.75 lakhs per month as your outflow. And this includes your everything your if you're going to stay on rent then your rent your food grocery schooling in a top end again I'm saying schooling in a top end like all the school IB Cambridge board so I would say it's very much possible to manage the show within one lakh per month outflow including rent including schooling in Ahmedabad.

33:43 I would advise people to take the ball park figure of 1.5 lakhs to be on a comfortable side. That will give you a lot of you know avenues to for discretionary spending as well in terms of movies and so forth. So 1.5 lakh would be my base case scenario to advise people for Ahmedabad. Yeah. No, makes sense. So just to confirm you mentioned that includes the rent and then the three to 3.5 lakhs of like a school fees per kid. Per year yes. Yeah. And then obviously depends on you have one kid two kids and things like you know maid like we have a full time maid who lives with us right and a cook and all those things. It depends on you know where how do you want to structure yourself? But I think 1.5 it's like you're you'll be living like kings and queens I would say.

34:38 Cool. Let's talk about on the career

34:40 Front. I think you mentioned that you know you wanted to make sure that you have the job in Ahmedabad. I mean very particular about the city. So and I think you started looking for these job while in US right? So how did it go? Any suggestions input to people who are considering because if that's a big thing for a lot of people also to find the right job right culture right salary and all that stuff. Anything that you can share because most of people are in their 10 to 15 years experience right? This is not like an entry level job also someone who is in the leadership role and then trying to move also yeah. Certainly. So I'll put it this way like I was at the point when I was applying for jobs and Ahmedabad is again not a being in IT is is it's let's say 10% of what Bangalore Hyderabad Chennai would be in IT right? There are not there are so many companies out here.

35:32 But those are a small size companies let's say that right? Not big companies. job standpoint I was at one point in time I was like I was feeling anxious like that how I'm going to find a job sitting out there in US. Same thing which everyone goes through right? It's very difficult to find a job in India well paying job in India once you're there in US. That was the thing and I was at the point that we'll make a move let's make a move and then after landing I'll find a job. We'll figure it out. But thanks to Arya and my mom they were like very clear that we are not moving without a job. So they kind of hold me back and I would agree to that. You know I would totally agree to that. So one advice I would you know share with people is even in my case the the timelines went for for a plus or minus one year in finding right one. After we were ready it took about a year to find a right job right? So I would put it that way.

36:33 But I would advise people to do that if possible right? Because direction you have a direction in life. You don't want to be in a place from my experience where you have landed and then you're trying to figure out life right? You're settling down and because you don't know whether which companies or even you'll find a job in the same city different city all that you don't want to go through those motions. So I would advise people strongly to make efforts and it's possible you know I've seen so many people finding jobs. It's just what it takes is sincere efforts. Sincere efforts right? So if the efforts are in place I think it's very much possible to find a job And then when you when you move back at least when you have a job in hand you feel sorted. Reason being okay the most important thing which is a job you are done with that because you have made your all efforts to find a great job great paying job in in all terms and

37:34 Then all you have to look after is okay now the next things which you know which you have to settle in look for an apartment or school because that takes a lot of time. And if you don't have a job the one person is looking after job thing and the other person is trying to figure out about the schools and everything else that becomes a little bit difficult and then initially I felt that yes if if at all we go without a job it will end up you know with quarrels and everything because then we'll be like >> [laughter] >> Like I think I would use the word I think Summer has used right the change management. You know you want to minimize the change management like I think you know job sorted out so there is less to be you know the things that you have to handle or think about yeah. Absolutely and I think as a journey I would say it takes a lot out of you right? So initially I thought it's a climbing you know maybe Aravalli hills somewhere right? Let's say that but it's like climbing a Himalaya right? It's it will take a lot out of you in making the move

38:35 Right? Emotionally psychologically financially all those things right? There's a lot of things. So as many parameters as you want to knocked off job could be one part of it. That may be under your control anyone's control right? To make sincere efforts and land I would advise them to sort those things out right? You know some things may not be under your control right? So which anyways you'll have to go through the motions. But yeah I think that was the journey of finding a job. No doubt things get hectic with job once you land in India with a job right? You don't get that transition time or down time. Winding up in US itself with a job winding up in US itself is a it's additional ask of your time with kids not to mention with two kids.

39:22 Coming back here also that's the same thing. You know it's the same thing like you you're in office from right from day one and they are still trying to figure out your Aadhaar and PAN and what not right? Kids school and education so it takes a lot of time. But in our case we were more like less worried about the India part of it. We were like India is our our country. We had a lot of help in terms of grandparents and So, we were like landing up in US was a main thing. Yeah. Landing out here we were like we'll we'll figure out. Like we need a job, but rest all things we can manage. That's that's that's what I would advise. Were there any practical tips? I know yeah, it's a with the full effort, right? But also you can be a little bit smart in terms of where you apply or which companies to search for.

40:09 Anything that you can suggest as a tactical tips for people who are in a similar boat. certainly. So, I would suggest three things, right? So, there are quite a few certain agencies out there, right? and and for the senior leadership roles as well. So, I'll I'll classify people into two parts. One like GCC is booming in India next 20 20 30 they are saying like 2,000 plus GCCs or whatever that number be. So, if your US-based company has has a possibility of transferring a job in the city where you're going to be, that would be the low-hanging fruit first. So, try that route first. If not, based there would be certain agencies whom you can contact. And there are senior-level coaches which will place people with 20 years 15 20 years of experience in in certain things and they they you know, market themselves that way. Like we are the folks who help NRIs find a job in India at some senior

41:11 Leadership levels. So, approaching them as well. In my case, what happened is there were no advertised jobs in Right? So, at one point in time I was thinking if you have to live in Ahmedabad, I may have to do a hybrid to Delhi or Hyderabad or Pune or I may have to travel like 2 days 3 days and you know, if I want to keep the family. but then my friend started telling me that thing things have changed in Ahmedabad. A lot of companies are coming now and things are growing. But again, there were no advertised senior-level jobs. So, what I had done is started approaching founders directly. And just these are relatively small-sized companies. Let's say 300 400 market cap companies. approaching founders and CEOs directly.

41:58 And that resonated. Like I got a lot of positive response from that segment. Yeah. So, because these are the people who have done zero to one. and have they have you know, reached the size of let's say 300 500 people or whatever you know, revenue size. And they want to grow. And they appreciate external talent. They appreciate that to do one to 10 or one to n, I will need to have been fairly senior external folks into the company, right? And that that's that's my background started resonating with this segment and I got a lot of positive traction on those front. so, third advice I would give people is depending on the size of the company, right? You may want to reach out to the decision makers directly. Find them on LinkedIn. Somehow build connects. talk to your friends.

42:55 Network directly. And I'm sure people value it. It's still the US experience is highly valued in India, right? It's it's people value a US culture and experience very well. and this companies want they are looking at the candidates to bring those best practices out here and establish. so, there's already a positioning is done. It's just about how do you reach to the right decision makers. So, LinkedIn networking would be the key as Got it. Yeah. thanks a lot for sharing that. this is something a lot of people

43:31 Have on their mind. wanted to get your insights on that. I know you mentioned about renting your home in US, right? Have you thought about selling, you know, either from a tax purpose or from a from a different angle? Like if you have thought about it, how did you make the decision to rent it? Is it just purely like, you know, to have an asset for the kids? because this is another thing that a lot of people think about whether to sell the house or rent it out. So, that's why I wanted to explore that a bit more. So, I I would say three things. A, again, it goes back to your self-awareness, right? Like how comfortable you are to have leave an asset in a foreign land. First of all, right? Like you it's it depends on the risk that you want to take. B, I would say it's also I would assume that people who are hoping to move back, right? Would have built that network and friends and ecosystem in the cities where they have. So, you have friends, you can at least keep an eye on the house.

44:27 Blah blah blah kind of thing. Third thing would be the In our case, it was financials as well. So, we have we have a very good friend in Dallas and so many other friends who is into real estate and and I I didn't have to think twice. Like, you know, they they understand the real estate and they are family to us. They understand real estate very well. so, I didn't have to think twice in my my scenario, but financials also play the you know, I had a very low interest rates, right? Pre-COVID era, the interest rates were very low. And the mortgage the rentals we are getting it it's more than the mortgage. Let's say that, right? So, it was That was the case with it. you know, so and as well the equity you're going to build over the years. Right? So, it's like a Yeah. If if you leave the house for 5 years and if you're then all itself will build your equity if not anything, right? So, it could be a significant money to leave out there. So, financials

45:27 Would be the third part of it. Other thing what I'm hoping I need to get it done is to create a trust obviously from the inheritance standpoint and work in the government records. from the from the taxes, right? Inheritance estate planning taxes are quite quite you know, quite significant out there. So, that's what I need to do. but yeah, I would I would advise people is the general folklore is don't do it. Don't sell your house. Sell your house. I would advise people to be a little bold. world has changed. it's it's a lot of globalization has happened. And anyways, you'll have a lot of friends where you're living who can just sneak by weekend in the house. And there are professional agencies as well. So, if it's if the financial case warrants is holding the house, you know, then I think one should opt for it provided you have someone to take care of it.

46:21 One last thing I think before we jump on the life in India. Like on the immigration status side, like have you applied for green card or just with the 140 like you moved back? >> Yeah. So, I have 140 approved. my labor condition the LCA part of it is on the you know, so I have a 2019 priority date. but I would assume my company would have revoked that. I was in AT&T. So, after you know, putting the job, it's like would have you know, you know, revoked that actual visa. So, for me to go back now again, I had to apply for business visas. Yeah. which I've just applied and I have an interview coming up for for business purposes for my current firm. but yeah, I was on H1 140 approved, no green card.

47:09 Yeah. That's the case. Cool. Thanks for clarifying that. So, how is life I think the fulfillment in India? you know, that's what I think the key thing. Yeah. So, how how is it

47:20 Going? Let Arya speak. Yeah. Honestly speaking, when we moved here, we thought I don't know whether we'll like we'll like it or not. How will we settle in? It is going to be very difficult because that's what you hear from people when you are moving back. And you also have that same mindset that you know, Okay, this is and I was a bit resistant as well to move back to India. So, that was another thing. But then the moment we have moved back here, honestly speaking, we haven't got time to really think about it that whether we are liking here or not. But to answer your question, it is great here. It is more or less the same. We don't feel much of a difference. I our lifestyle has remained more or less the same. Yes, cleanliness here and there it is going to make you a little bit disappoint disappointed on that part.

48:12 But then we have all we are all you know, we have spent our most of the lives in India only. So, it is not much difficult for us to adjust to that environment because eventually like it is in 2 3 4 months you get used to it. So, that that part. But otherwise close to family, you can just be around. You can attend wedding functions. So, yes. And I would say on the funnier note, right? For it comes to driving, so she did most of her driving in US. Yes. So, in the kind of initially she was like, "You're What is this driving, right?" Kind of and I had driven in India before before we went to US. And I was like, "Wow, my natural instincts came back." So, I kind of enjoyed driving here. Contrary to the popular opinion, it's like, "Yeah, it's just drive freely, right?" but yeah, I would say overall as Arya said, we don't find much of a difference you know, in US and here.

49:09 Reason being it's the stage of life, right? With two kids. There it's like just get up, drop kids to the school, do your job, come back. And same thing. It's over same thing over here, right? She she is she also has a job. So, like all of us start in the morning, we drop kids, do our part, come back. And time flies. There's no time to even think about anything. but I would say yeah. Yeah, but then I think the community where the place where you are in everything that everything adds to it because it really makes your life easier to settle. Yes. And stay happy here. Like if you don't get a proper surrounding or your proper like-minded people as what you say at the kind of group that you had there back in US.

49:56 Similar kind of group if you can build it here, then it's really easy because it's more or less the same. Yes. >> I would advise people to research if they if anyone is planning then you know go go to the societies where precisely this is the township that I'm going to live. Talk to people out there. Build friends before even you make a move. Be comfortable. You know because as Arya said it's very very important where you land. If you are in a wrong pocket of the city then you know you you are your fulfillment portion may get a hit. But if you're in the right pocket of the city with the right the right locality then you know it's it will positively impact your fulfillment notion.

50:42 Definitely. One thing that I just came

50:44 To my mind. I know Summer like you are always like leaning towards India, right? And I don't know about Arya like so were you also keen on that? So just maybe from a decision-making process, right? So that's why I was asking you know both spouse has to be on the same page. Like was that the same situation for you Arya? Like you know from the beginning itself you are also on board about moving to India. >> To to be honest no as I said I was a bit resistant to the move back. Like initially as he said when we went there I didn't even want to go to the US. Oh okay. Yeah I didn't even want to like what's there? Let's stay in India. Why do you want to go out and things like that? And he said no no you have seen you haven't seen the life out there. Let's go explore.

51:30 Few years we'll come back. So few years we'll come back. I said okay let's go to the US. We'll come back stayed same for him but it changed for me. But then yeah so last two three years were I would say a little bit more on discussions, debates and everything. But then yes ended up we ended up in the on the same page and now I think we are okay with that. I mean even I'm kind of neutral as in living here is the same thing as there does not make much of a difference in our routine life. >> Yeah. So so you know it does not really make any difference. And on a funnier note I was like the what I was betting on you know it's like so as she said she was neutral, right? And and by the way yeah one important point like because we had kids so she was kind of caught up she she didn't work in US. So she was caught up with two young kids and in the cycle. So she was like I want to do something. I want to do something and I couldn't imagine she getting into a job especially as the kids are still young,

52:31 Right? With whatever things it has to see. So one mind one premise was coming to here because of health she'll be able to get into it and now she she is and she has opened her own dance academy here. She is from the dancing background. So that is one and the second thing on the funnier note what I was betting on like the way the western materialism went into her blood it gets into the blood, right? Similarly the house help, maid, cook it will get into the blood her blood at some point. and now she says having a full-time maid is like a genie in the house, right? You just say and it's there. So I think yeah. Let's do this. No thanks a lot for sharing that.

53:16 Cool and like kids enjoying with the grandparents and I I I heard like I think they're already enjoying the community. So in terms of the schooling and everything like everything is good on the kids kids kids side. Oh yes yeah it's yes so kids they were the first one they're young pretty young, right? So then that was the reason we pulled the trigger. We were like we need to move now before kids age. And then yeah kids are very happy. The grandparents are very happy to be back and on the funnier note I I do a check on my child and the one like where do you want to go now? Like do you want to go back or thing and one day I think a few days he was like I want to go back to Dallas and I was like really? I was like really you want to go back to Dallas? I was like okay fair enough let's go. We'll not have grandparents. We'll not have friends and he was like no no no I just want to go for a day and say hello to my friends and come back. Otherwise I'm happy here. He has many friends here as So that was a kind of thing. So yeah kids have jailed in very well. Cool.

54:16 Is there anything that we haven't talked that you want to bring up or any advice for the people who are considering about moving to India? I would say strong advice to people because people would be in this guy if at all people are in dilemma to be self-aware. There is no right or wrong decision. So I would suggest people not to compare yourself with anyone else, right? Because everyone's journey is different. Everyone's family financial situations are different. So never you know get bogged down by peer pressures what the majority does or minority does whatever. I would advise people to be self-aware. The end of the day you know as you age in life especially beyond 40s I think it's about time you have a very clear priorities that what will matter to you. You don't want to be in a state when you're 55 or 60s when like you know had I tried this this could have been the thing. You don't want to do that. And the worst case scenario we had planned for the worst

55:17 Case scenario. So I had asked Arya you know that we'll try for two years. At worst case what will happen? You know the palm filing is already going on in US, right? All we have to do now I don't fall under lottery system because of 140. All we have to go and go in Bangalore some other other form will be ready to send us back to US. So it was the worst case scenario also planned. So advice to people would be do introspection and have clarity of mind what resonates with you and you know try things. Don't be in a state at later point in life that had I done this this could have been the outcome. That that's not a good state to be in. Anything from your side Arya?

56:03 I think it also depends on how flexible you are as in in terms of getting used to the surroundings, the people. Like as we talk about both of us we both of both of us are you know people-friendly people. And we need people around. We are flexible to flexible to adjust according to our surroundings even sometimes if we are not compatible much with a particular couple or someone else. It would not come on our faces. We would be like okay that's okay. People have their you know negatives and positives. We gel along. So that also is an important factor I feel personally that you need to be flexible. If you are pretty flexible then yes you can adjust. It's not it's not much of a problem. Yes.

56:52 No yeah thanks a lot. I think the key thing is self-aware and having a clarity of thought. I mean I think I can see that in the conversations you know how much you are aware of what you really need and the clarity of thought and never to have regrets in the life, right? I mean if you have a chance what's the worst case scenario? Plan for your worst case scenario and take a decision one way or the other. Then instead of like being in this limbo and you know before you realize time flies by and you couldn't make a decision because other things are in play right now. Absolutely and I would really give kudos to you and the Desi Returns community because it's really helping people. At the end of the day as I said people need the social circles, right? And all this social media tools, email campaigns, whatever you're doing, right?

57:41 I think it helps a lot to people because this is one of the major decisions people make in their lives. So having access to as much information and peer groups really helps. So I think keep doing I would advise keep doing what you're doing in the Desi Returns and you know yeah kudos. Yeah thank you very much. So really appreciate. And glad it was helpful in your decision process as well as with the move. Good luck with everything. Good luck with the dance academy and you know the new life in Ahmedabad. You know thank you very much for being on the show and sharing your story. Lot of details, lot of nuggets for people to take up. Certainly. Thank you so much Avinash. >> Yeah. Thanks Avinash. Have a good one.