IB vs IGCSE vs CBSE for NRI Kids: Which Curriculum Fits Best?

4:11 Those things and we created our curriculum and we we were able to successfully distribute in about 1200 plus schools in India so and it was well appreciated and this curriculum kept on you know getting fine with time so I spent my 10 years in this Venture with the couple of Ventures one is the Propel education there again we work with schools now this is a more deep connection with schools where we just not you know deliver curriculum we also train teachers to you know help them understand how the education is changing and how children you know the the environment has changed atmosphere has changed over such a long period so what is the right education now and how to deliver it to Children yeah so that is the work at Propel another venture

5:15 I'm a significant part of is uncover ma genius where where we understood we work deeply in mathematics education and in fact a lot of this is personal experience because we me and my wife who's again a professor in mathematics in Delhi University lectur so we didn't send our children to school we thought of taking an alternative path and we created our own School initially but then homeschooled a little later after 2 three years so during these years so that has been my journey over last 15 plus years and no fantastic yeah thanks a lot for such a detailed overview and really looking forward to our specific questions right especially for youth to spend close to 15 years understanding how the kids Thrive and which curriculum and doing a homeschooling for

6:17 Your own kids with an alternate education system which we will dive into so maybe let's start with a little bit on a high level on the different curriculums that are available in India right now and you know which one would work better for what kind of a kid or maybe some compare and contrast on those curriculums I think that would be very good stamp yeah so I'll say there are many

6:43 Curriculums but I'll say majorly if I talk about children grade one onwards in pre- primary below grade one them more curriculums like montri reguo and other apart from the widely known curriculums from grade one onwards primarily there are three curriculums I which I would you know get into detail of details of first is cbsc which everybody knows then there is Cambridge curriculum which is a more recent Edition which is also called IGCSE it is a curriculum which was created which is created by Cambridge University and it's been you know accepted by schools worldwide and the third one is IB curriculum which again which is again an international curriculum and it's it's I

7:43 Would say it's more it's more relevant to the current education so these three are main then there are state boards then there is ICC but all those are on similar lines as cbsc yeah so when I talk about cbsc then those state boards and ICC also get covered yeah do I get into details yeah let's I think dive into a little bit of differences between these boards and which one would be appropriate I think that kind of structure of teaching in these different curriculums and right so keeping your audience in mind which are more you know whove been staying abroad and now planning to come back to India I'll talk from that perspective whatever I understand and then you can probably ask me questions in case I miss something so first board I'll take up is

8:46 Cbsc which is India's national board and which is one of the most Progressive boards in India compared to state boards and ICC ICC is also similar but cbsc has been you know making a lot of changes recently just to you know to evolve with times okay so that is there and so in this board in fact a lot depends on the school also with the same board there are some schools who've been doing full work but at majority level I would say because of the structures provided by Boards and the guidelines and the objective of the board maximum schools get stuck into

9:46 Completing the basic requirements what are What the board say and in fact I don't know if it's a mass knowledge or not the board come comes into picture only in grade 10th n9th onwards till 8th every school is independent to implement any curriculum they want any in any way they want even the exams are not necessary but because 10th is where the cbsc comes in so most schools and it's been a pattern for a long long time now so most people most schools have in fact it's not just schools schools Publishers the who the whole system which has gotten created because of this is that things have been you know whatever requirements

10:47 Of cbsc are there in 9th and 10th they have gotten backtracked and whole curriculum from grade one has been designed in a way that children face minimum problems in grade 9th and 10th yeah but that does not happen so we'll come back to it later what happens is the board the the education system which got created it's it's it's an old board and a lot of a lot of evolution hasn't happened over time so the education system is stuck in the past in the sense that it's more fact based memory may based which requires a lot of Road learning so the the system was Bas more based on memorizing things rather

11:49 Than understanding and understanding the Practical Implement implications of what we are studying yeah so a lot of those things are still continuing that is where I see a lot of gap between current needs of the needs of the world and the education system that does not mean that there are some schools who are not who've not progressed or who not evolved over time there are some schools who are you know a Affiliated to cbsc boards board but they are doing beautiful work but there are few far in between yeah so in cbsc boards what is happening the guidelines from the board and for for 9th and 10th but depending on that the whole curriculum gets distributed from grade one onwards in a way that children prepare for

12:49 Grade 9th and 10th and because the syllabus is such even the amount volume wise and you know and the approach wise is such that and also every school has a lot of students in each class about 40 odd students in each class so getting into experiential curriculum which is the need of the r becomes difficult for teachers because of the number of children in each class second the because of the background from where the CH teachers are coming from they are also coming from the same background and even the colleges which offer B and all they have not evolved so the kind of teaching pedagogies they come with are

13:49 More traditional okay so that is why the change has been slow and schools because was because of the size of population India has schools have always been filled so they did not even have incentive to change at a pace which was required yeah but now what what is happening is because of the introduction of IGCSE and IB which are more Progressive boards I'll come to details of these so there's a competition so even cbsc schools are trying to evolve okay and even the awareness is more so the change is happening at a little faster Pace compared to the past but yes a lot of changes still required I've covered a very high overview I would want you to ask specific questions after I talk about igcs and IB also in case

14:51 Required yeah so I'll now come to igcs board it's a board by Cambridge University UK and again this University is a very old University which has been working in the field of education for long their curriculum is Progressive more Progressive than the traditional cbsc curriculum which is there and they also encourage Hands-On experiences more even the exam paper in fact the biggest difference between these three boards the main work of boards is the assessments the examinations which happen so the biggest difference between IG CSC board and cbsc board is the kind of Assessments they create for students so cbsc board is more so this war

15:52 Happened in which year or something like that which they are trying to evolve igcc curriculum is more thinking based so it is not about memorizing it is about understanding the level of child's thinking level of child's problem solving abilities which is there somewhat more than what cbsc requires so an igcc board will not ask a direct question like this that what was the name of the scientist who invented something they'll probably go into the detail like so if this machine is used for say for example there's a lawn mower yeah yeah so lawn mower it is used to cut the grass do you think there can be other uses also for this so this is not

16:53 Something which can be memorized this is something where you need to apply your mind and see understand the operation of the lawnmower and then understand where else it can be used yeah so those kind of things it has a little igcs board has a little different structure where you know the age groups are divided into blocks so grade 3 to five is one block grade yeah first second or kindergarten to second is one block grade 628 is one block then grade 991 and 11 12th is one block okay so that is how it is there and the outcomes are defined not classwise what happens in cbsc here outcomes are defined blocks wise so in three years from grade three to five the board mentions very clearly that and at

17:56 The end of grade five this is what we expect the children to understand and this is the level of understanding we expect from a child and they very clearly defined parameters in brid board that and then they have their own curriculum they have their own books which are some of them are published by Cambridge also then some different Publishers peon is there then some Indian Publishers are also there so they take out books for The igcs Bard okay now coming to the IB board which is now becoming popular in India and elsewhere also IB board compared to these two boards is the most Progressive one in the sense there has been a lot of research going and for about how children

18:56 Learn and especially a lot of care is taken at the pre- primary and primary level to make education experiential rather than you know Road based and rather than you know just sharing of knowledge sharing of information that is the last thing they suggest they talk about that even if we cover less that is okay but it has to be more experiential more more practical where the understanding has to be built and if you see like you also your background background is also software engineering right yeah robotics but I can understand on the yeah so if we see that the world has moved a lot and technology is changing every couple of years yeah so we cannot expect to teach the child Java

19:58 Today and then you know Implement Java 5 years later because the language today also Java is obsolete the other languages which have come up so this board the basic the core of this board is helping children learn how to learn instead of learning things it is about helping children learn how to learn so that whatever is required after you know 5 7 10 years they are they have built that skill to learn the things which are required in the future which is a very beautiful way of approaching the education yeah I will not talk about implementation because implementation is very subjective to the school who is doing it these are the boards I've talked about like I said that even under cbsc there are some schools who are doing beautifully for children there are

21:00 Schools under IB who are not doing you know implementing it that well also so it's a lot depends on the vision of the head who's running the school and how much investment in terms of training their teachers and ensuring that the quality is taken care of so that plays a big part in ensuring the quality of delivery by the school go so board wise IB is the most Progressive one I'll say IG CSC lies somewhere in the middle and cbsc is coming from the traditional side but now trying to evolve yeah thanks a lot for such a detailed overview just to follow up I think as you suggested as you said I think on cbsc the assessment happens in grade n and 10 I think pretty much every school try to

22:02 Design their curriculum so that they are prepared for that and then I think you mentioned in the IG CSC it's the blocks where they have these different blocks where they do assessment in the IB how does the assessment work relatively compared to these two and I know you mentioned it's very much independent to the school in what they want to implement so what kind of assessment happens and how does differ from the other conents so IB has gives a lot

22:29 Of freedom to the school for the implementation in IB also there are different blogs like this pyp which is called primary year programs which is for children till grade five then middle year programs myyp which is for grade sixth and eth then there is CP and DP CP is certificate program for grades 9th and 10th and DP is diploma program for grade 11th and 12th so till grade 8th IB is I IB does not give any structure like in I cbsc and IGCSE there is a syllabus prescribed by those boards then there are books which are based on that syllabus those guidelines which are provided by those boards IB just suggests that these skills are to be

23:30 Developed in the children IB discourages the use of the books it does not prescribe any books it suggest every school to create their own curriculum for children so that is H that happens mostly and that is also the biggest positive they have but also the biggest challenge face they face because teachers today are not that equipped to design their own curriculum after indepth understanding of how children learn that is where they face a lot of Challenge and when the board doesn't give any anchor for them to fall upon to you know some basic guidelines that taking those basic guidelines they can create curriculum or they can create some things on their own so

24:33 So a lot of teachers a lot of schools struggle big time over there getting it right so that is the challenge and again yeah all these things will take a little time till the teacher training part is taken care of till you know a lot of IB is the smallest segment of the schools India has that is why the focus now is becoming more and more so with time I see it developing and you know with time I see it I see teachers getting more equipped to deal with this kind of progressive curriculum but today it's a challenge yeah yeah yeah so I think in continuing to that right I think the key thing is the implementation you know for any of these curriculums you have highlighted that there are some schools in cbsc that are

25:35 Doing very beautifully and you know some schools in IB struggling even though the framework might be to be more Progressive but at the end it depends on the implementation the teachers training and so on so how can one parent be able to differentiate which school or what are the questions that they should be looking or what what information that they should see to differentiate school that's doing well in a particular

26:02 Curriculum so two points come to my mind first every parent who is planning to put their child in the school they should meet the head of the school and understand the vision of that vision of the head what Vision do they have whether it's a he or she do they have for the school and second to understand if the work is happening in that field another major aspect is to understand how much investment in terms of effort time and money they are putting in teacher training because teacher training is the big at the end of the day teacher is with the children so whatever be the vision of the head the principal or the owner the the groundwork is done by

27:03 The teacher so if that does not get reflected in the teacher the work does not happen so that is very important to understand that how much work is happening on the teacher end and coming from majority of schools today still do not consider teacher training the important part of their you know their growth or Evolution though every curriculum cbsc also suggests a certain number of days for teacher training but that happens more as a you know formality rather than serious effort there IB has their own teacher training programs which happens again but the you know the frequency and the number of trainings needed are much more than what is currently being being provided so these two things in any school are the

28:03 Biggest indicator of how the school will work with students got it so is there any online portal right to differentiate because someone who he hasn't lived in a city so somebody might be moving to Bangalore or Delhi or Mumbai and they have been abroad so they might not be very familiar with the schools they might get some recommendations from family but it's a different because you know it's their own experience with their own kids or someone so is there any online resource that can tell like these schools are better that's one aspect from a rating and then the other one is like some of the Practical questions that they can ask to differentiate which are good schools or which are not so good schools so that they can make a right decision when choosing one so I'll take your

28:51 Questions one by one if I come to the first question that is there any online portal I am afraid I don't know of any and second thing is it is very difficult to you know objectively put these things on any platform because if we ask 100 parents of the same school there would be mixed reviews yeah some will say the school is good some will say the school is you know not so good some will say the school is depending on their individual experiences that depend a lot on the teacher who teaching the children or probably on some other experiences which they have had so it's very difficult to you know objectively put these things on and

29:51 This will happen with the best of school this will happen with the worst of school that will so just sitting online and deciding is a very difficult task and most people go by Word of Mouth which happens in every field so if somebody asks me sitting in US asks me which is a good school I'll say XYZ is a good school so it gets imprinted in their mind that XYZ z i can consider yeah but there the problem lies is that the awareness amongst parents is also low about what is a good school most people go by The Branding the you know again the the result they have been giving for years and the result is mostly in terms of you know what percentage of their children are getting what percentage of marks in 10th and

30:53 12th yeah which again is not the right indicator especially in today's age because marks are becoming less and less important and skills are becoming more and more important so it's a challenge yes for any school any parent to understand that is where the help of an expert would help I see a lot of parents like I'm am based in Delhi so Delhi has a lot of schools and there are schools who are running on traditional pedagogies they have been over you know inundated by the applications they receive and then you know they select some and people die for getting into those schools without understanding that this knowledge or

31:55 This kind of skills might not be required 10 year hence or 12 year hence when their students move out of the school but that is happening and that is the reality so that is a challenge I would say and I don't know what exactly the solution to this is as of now okay so it's mostly like I think there's no set of questions it's just talking to the head of school understanding their vision and seeing the implementation of certain framework what they're doing for that exper like you know that learning methodology and so on so yeah yes so one thing I would say is that because of the Frameworks and because of the the the way these boards are created there's a general tendency that IB board will be doing some things right whatever be the case cbsc board unless they are putting in some effort they

32:56 Would be doing certain things traditionally whatever be the case so if somebody has to take a broad decision I would personally especially from primary to Middle years opt for an IB School considering that some things because they are coming from the top so some things would be aligned whether or not the implementation happens at whatever level yeah but that is a very very Broad understanding I'm giving that does not mean that IB is blindly right or wrong yeah understood so especially like a each curriculum has a different language requirements the first language second language and so on like maybe the third language is there but it might not be mandatory in terms of assessment but it might be mandatory from a state level to learn so for kids who have grown up abroad and who is who are

33:57 Not very familiar with some local language from a reading and writing each curriculum has their requirements from a language like first language second language so some have flexibility to choose Spanish or French or not like a local language or there might be some that requires to be familiar with the local language so on a high level on the language requirements because a lot of people think that IB provides more flexibility from a language if somebody is not familiar with it but I don't know if it's that is completely true because I think I don't know if cbsc offers some sort of some flexibility also so if we can shed some light on that I think that would be

34:36 Great so now all the board in fact English in most of these schools I would say is the primary language in which the curriculum is taught in almost all the schools whether it is IB igcc or cbsc recently the National Education policy which came which also mandates the introduction of regional language especially at the primary level for children so that is there but I am not aware of how many schools are implementing that but language wise I would state that because people are coming from outside English I assume that everybody is comfortable with so all curriculum is in English except for for the language where apart from English would be a mandatory language with English there would be one Regional language which

35:37 They can opt for or one Regional language in cbsa schools might be a must so that Regional language would be their Region's language and I assume that if somebody is settling in Gujarat so they have roots in Gujarat so the child might not understand Gujarati but the parents might be familiar with reading and writing of Gujarati so but yes with the child directly coming in third or fourth might be a challenge Because unless their parents have made a conscious effort to you know in Gujarati if they are living outside so that would be a challenge but then the parent will have to help or the school will have to help or some external help if required parents can take that will have to be there otherwise I don't see any challenge in terms of languages in any of the

36:39 Boards got it yeah so that is something which is well take taken care of all all kind all boards offer flexibility in opting for different languages after you know if a child wants an additional language all these boards have multiple options but then the limitation comes at the level of the school in all three boards so if the school is only offering Spanish and German then the child cannot off for Sanskrit or off for you know say French if it is not there or of for Russian if it is not there that is more of a resource problem because every school cannot keep a teacher for every language but I think the takeaway is even cbsc has that flexibility at the end it depends on the school Which languages they want to offer more from a resource availability perspective right right right got it so the other

37:39 Question I wanted to check with you is you know especially someone who is learning in a different style right I think you a progressive and know different ways of learning I think as you explained with the different curriculums how are things post 12th grade right in terms of studies I know it's a general concept that people who study in IB most probably study abroad you know cbsc is designed to be prepared for competitive exams that are more applicable for Indian institutions and so on so maybe my question is more specific on people who have their kids in IB or IG CSC how well are they prepared for any of the examinations for Indian institutions and also do they have any options to to study in any Indian institutions you know maybe some other way not like through this competitive examinations or there's some institution that offers graduation or undergrad or graduation programs in India so I'll divide this question in

38:42 Two categories for the parents whose children are in primary levels whether first second third fourth for those parents they need not worry because all the systems are changing even the you know for graduation initially it used to be marks which are scored in different in the board which was the main primary criteria but now slowly that has been taken care of now it is the exam the entrance exam which happens and the pattern of entrance exam is also getting involved so by the time these children reach that level nobody is aware what the you know exam pattern would be but yes there's a logical and there's a very there's a sense that it would go more towards practical applications which happens in all these schools so for for parents who have their children in primary level I

39:45 Don't think there's a need to worry at all for the children who for the parents whose children are gr six onwards so I would say that for for parents whose children are in 9 10th 11 12th yes for going internationally IB board is a very good Launchpad in the sense that the their curriculum from grade 9th is very research oriented and very very rigorous so there a child starts getting into to real life projects from grade 9th onwards and very practical knowledge they start gaining which is required and which is appreciated by universities outside so yes it is a Launchpad there it also becomes a challenge because they have not

40:48 Theyve not gone through the system which is required for you know Indian universities or getting into engineering or medical so yes they face a challenge there for that they need to overcome it by you know other ways like you know preparing for the these exams from somewhere or that is required for cbsc school again for the parents whose children are in Grade 9 10 11 12 the the system is such that they in fact major of majority of these children also opt for other classes for entrance exams because the course curriculum no doubt is on similar lines but the level of difficulty or the level of complexity is different in fact that is one of my concern that the level

41:48 Of complexity in exams is getting lower by the years so that is that is not a good sign of Education in general it has to test the understanding of the child and so which is still not happening okay no yeah thanks for that so I know I'm just being cognizant about the time I know there are a lot more topics that I wanted to talk to you especially the homeschooling and you know some of the things that are evolving in the Indian you know the system with the curriculums and so on I'm sure I think we will connect again and talk about those and I really appreciate you taking that time and sharing your insights and this is very very helpful for all lot of families I think to have a broad understanding of these different curcums what to think about what to ask when they're looking for schools it's a lot of valuable Insight from your side so thank you very much for taking the time and sharing your thoughts on this thank you so much Avinash it's my pleasure I would be

42:49 Happy to help in whatever way it is possible